Lol yeah. Its a simple issue with a simple solution.
Explaining the current balance in this game to gf rn. (Come talk to lazys gf about balance)
Also the FT should follow this design mentality as well. You should be trading health for gear as FT. Otherwise everyone just runs supports because movement speed as FT doesnt matter unless you like to chase winded preds. Otherwise support is the objectively best class to play.
I still think the characters are pretty balanced as they are, a big and strong class should be able to carry more equipment and have less stamina because of the weight of themselves and the gear. A skinny and weaker class should not be able to carry as much but instead be able to move fast and for a long duration. A Predator scout can be just as good in melee, but you have to hit like once or twice then move out, and keep doing like that. A scout has much higher skillcap than the other classes.
I think movement speed as FT matters alot more than you think, you can dodge all projectiles fired by the Predator much easier, you can outrun/outsmart a Berserker chasing you if you play as FT scout with the strongest pistol.
Maybe Illfonic should consider adding a class for both factions where you can customize the health, stamina, gear, speed yourself. But instead that class wont have any extra specialization like the other classes do, like a penalty, kind of.
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So you are telling me that berzerker, being as tanky as he is, should be fighting you at long range? And on top of that have a full gear loadout?
Or that scout should have such absurd mobility that in comparison to berzerker its like comparing an obese person stuck on their bed, to a fucking rabbit hopping for miles?
That support should have the most gear and most health, making it easy for the FT to stack gear out the wazoo, and be tanky enough that pred at melee range cant compete?
Or that scout should be able to catch up to a pred that has crossed the map in second wind to heal, and kill him while animation locked?
Sorry. I dont think thats fair. And I think that looking at the character models and trying to decide balance off their builds instead of their intended roles as a class makes no sense. Take away the graphics and on paper we have a massive balance deficiency. Put it back in game and it shows.
The one point ill give you for sure however is that mobility can help you dodge preds projectiles. Thats a fair point. However so can simply not standing still in the first place.
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Same with class names. Despite being called things like scout, its clear they are more intended to be ranged classes. So If my changes hurt the names too much, then they can simply change scout to ranger.
Ultimately names and looks dont matter when looking at balance. Its about how it plays. And how it plays right now makes zero sense.
The berserker is fine the way it is. If berserker had too much stamina then he would be OP. The scout predator is supposed to used for a long range play style. Having a ton of stamina is helpful when youâre playing this way as you can constantly reposition yourself after taking shots at the fireteam. The Elder predator is better than the Scout though. The stats that the Elder has is what the Scout shouldâve had from the beginning.
Also the movement speeds that Scouts and Recons have prove to be super beneficial when youâre trying to out-maneuver the Predator. I will say that Illfonic should limit the amount of Supports that a fireteam can have to prevent the fireteam from having infinite heals.
I play a Scout but would not be ok with classes being limited.
It would keep things more balanced though. If not classes then maybe there should be a limit to the number of medkits that a fireteam can have.
Except now scout is quite op Because you can leap spam and you have very long leaps on top of that. Berzerker even with more stamina would be far less OP because of his pitiful leaps/run speed. Add onto that the lack of gear, and he is more specialized than op. As for scout, pending my stealth changes, scout will have a lot less of a reason to need so much stamina. He has long enough leaps already to reposition. He only needs a few leaps to do it. Anything more is absurd.
I did not suggest a change in movement speed. I suggested a change in stamina. What this means is that Faster classes are faster, but only in bursts. Slower classes are far slower, but in longer breaths. This should equalize overall speed, while keeping the speeds in combat still different enough to matter.
And finally. I am not okay with anything ever being limited. But because of that, The classes themselves need to leave little room for exploitation. The gameplay needs to be tightened, and my changes will do that, almost certainly.
Iâm saying that you should play the class that fits you and your gameplay, if you know you are bad at moving out from the bullet rain coming from the Fireteam, then yes, you should probably pick the Berserker or the Samurai for their higher health pool, then you can fire off that extra arrow or whatever before you move to a new position. Why shouldnât you be able to play more of a ranged style as a Berserker? You would probably surprise the Fireteam aswell as they are counting on you jumping in, meleeing, getting into second wind followed by being chased down. Just because it says that Berserkers are heavy hitters in melee doesnât mean you have to stick to melee if you play it.
If youâre an experienced player, have good situational awareness then you can go on and play the Scout, if you get hit by a burst of bullets then you and your experienced brain will tell your fingers to get your character out of there quickly and pick another location to attack from.
Yes! They lose mobility, becoming an easy target for ranged attacks.
Youâre not suppose to enter second wind, if you do then you need to change your tactic when playing. If you do enter second wind you need to make sure youâre not being followed, if you are being followed then you need to reach high grounds where the FT Scout/s wont reach you in time. Other than that, Yes! A Scout should be able to move that fast.
As for the graphic settings i agree, i think Illfonic needs to change the view distance so that you can not see players across the whole map, you should only be able to see players as far away as you can see obstacles and foilage that affects the view distance setting.
A Support class will still take splash damage from a charged shoulder cannon shot if aimed straight at the player, while a Scout can completely avoid it.
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Scout isnât OP at all. If a fireteam knows what theyâre doing then they can easily melt a Scout predator. Leap spamming isnât going to help if the fireteam constantly has you in their sights. I play a Hunter and I leap around teams but it isnât that effective against teams that keep their eyes on you.
I know you didnât suggest changes in movement speed but you made it seem that Support classes were the only viable options for fireteam. I was pointing out the benefits of having Scouts/Recons on the team.
Because, you have 500 more hp than scout. You are supposed to be in the thick of things. At range, even with guns being hitscan, you eat way too many bullets, and dont have to care (unless the FT is stacking meta weapons, which is its own topic).
Debateable. Depends on the player of course, But I have always found that supports are best at baiting out shots, or being the one focused. Ideally as support you want pred to attack you, to expose himself for the team. You dont need the most gear to fulfill a role. And if everyone stacks support (and knows what they are doing), pred is going to have a really fucked time
I Mean obviously, but at the same time, considering the DPS the FT has, its inevitable that you are gonna get second winded at some point if they are coordinated. It needs to be reliable. The fact that it isnt is just another reason why we have such short and unsatisfying games.
I never said anything about this. But yeah.
And that is still true despite the stamina change.
If the FT knows what they are doing they will melt any predator. Thats a whole other topic of balance issues, one im not keen on getting into atm. However for the majority of FTâs (especially on console) leap spamming over them constantly pretty much makes it impossible for them to track you.
Definitely not the only viable option. Im not saying any of these classes are bad as is. Im saying the potential for abuse is there, and needs to be reworked. If the FT knows what they are doing and stacks all supports as well as Yautja bane, and meta weapons, pred is gonna be fucked no matter what. Once again, Totally different topic. My point tho is that if you give gamers any room to exploit your game on a mechanical level, they will. The only way around that, is to tighten your design decisions. Force the playstyles you intend with each class. The playstyles will still exist, you just will have to put more effort in deciding what class to play, based on your playstyle.
This is your own opinion and kind of a stereotypical statement. Those extra 500 hit points are just as good for ranged combat as they are in melee. An inexperienced player would gladly take those extra hit points even if he/she wants to play a ranged tactic, when you play as a ranged Berserker you even have a head start if you need to go eat a boar or enter second wind, weighing up for the bad stamina.
You eat just as many bullets in melee as you do at range, considering the damage drop from all weapons other than the sniper rifles, you take more damage in melee if one guy is parrying you while the other 3 fires at you.
*How is it debateable? When you move slower you become an easier target.
*Baiting out shots can be debatable though, a class who can eat damage or a class who has the avoidance to prevent damage? Again, this depends on your skill, pick the one who fits your gameplay.
*It doesnât matter which class i play, i never want to be attacked by the Predator, i always hope that itâll go for someone else.
All Predators will get into second wind at some point, yes, itâs understandable, all it takes is one little mistake. Same as choosing your path to where you start healing up during the second wind, if you pick a bad route, youâre screwed, and you should learn from it and try to improve, becoming a better player, knowing which factors to think of the next time you enter second wind.
Yes, but an experienced player with said hitpoints becomes very, very, potent.
And no. because of how damage drops off at ranges, you do not eat the same amount of bullets. It depends on the gun obviously, but this is quite untrue. Even if it were however, and damage was static at all ranges, you are still a much harder target to hit in most cases. Much smaller, and if cloaked w/bow even worse.
Right this argument isnt going to go anywhere. Its the most subjective part. Obviously, pick the class that fits your playstyle. My problem is that the classes do not enforce the playstyle they exhibit. Between all the other variables, Any class can become very opposite of what its trying to be.
Right, but just as easily, it depends how much damage you took after the second wind. Its entirely possible for the FT to nuke down your second wind timer as well, forcing you to make a bad decision, because they are peppering you on your whole escape path. Sometimes you are on a part of the map that makes it difficult to break line of sight already. Obviously you shouldnt be able to heal in dumb places, But situationally, you could be screwed.
edit
and sometimes you leap and hit your toe on a pebble and get deflected and spend what feels like 30 seconds slowly falling in place, whole time getting sprayed lol.
I have yet to see an experienced player pick the Berserker at the moment, for obvious reasons. :P
Maybe you donât eat the same amount of bullets, but the same amount of damage. If you have 2 snipers and 2 assault rifles, at range snipers do 100% damage, ar does letâs say 50%, while in melee range ar does 100% and snipers probably switches to secondary weapon for 100%, i think it evens up.
If the Fireteam can shoot the Predator during the whole second wind, then itâs just like i said earlier, to learn from the mistakes, try pick a good route, line of sight as soon as you can. Many players donât plan their attacks when playing as the Predator, which leads to second wind.
I always plan where to approach the Fireteam the first time, from where and on who my first strike will be, if things go bad i know atleast one way where i can go to reset and make up a new plan.
Leaping straight up in the air and hitting your head in branches when leaping needs to be fixed in my opinion, either make the Predator collision free vs branches, rocks and roots during a leap or cancel the leap action if weâre not going to end up where we planned to leap.
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I have seen it been played effectively, but its rare.
Also about snipers, Since they can be ran with red dots, its still effective even close up.
Yeah forsure. Still, Just saying, the maps dont give you many options for height advantage.
Haha no doubt man.
Not necessarily, a good fireteam will be able to keep track of you no matter what. Even if they do lose track of you, they can reposition themselves to prevent getting hit by arrows or plasma blasts. Thereâs a difference between good PS4 players and bad PS4 players.
Iâve beaten these types of teams before but they do prove to be kinda challenging. Itâs all about the approach you take. If youâre careless and go straight into melee against these teams then youâll get melted.
So youâre saying that there should be restrictions put in place to ensure that all players play the same way when they choose a specific class? Itâs better if youâre free to play however you want with whatever class you choose. You just said that you donât like limitations for the fireteam in regards to classes per team so why impose restrictions on the type of playstyle that can be used for each predator class?
hence why i said majority, and not all.
for sure
I dont like restrictions on what classes I can play, or what weapons I can use, is what I was saying. I dont want to load into a match and not be able to play support because someone else is. Thats what I meant about the limitations.
However, I feel that the classes should be far more specific to their playstyle. The wild west right now in how the classes work really hurts the balance of the game, because it makes it hard to make anything work.
Berserker need a little bit more health in my opinion, like 100/150 more.
Preventing all four fireteam members from playing the same class could help the balance of the game though. Thatâs how Evolve was and it worked very nicely.
What do you mean by the classes should be more specific to their playstyle? In my opinion, I think the predator classes are fine the way they are. The classes give enough freedom for the player to choose whatever playstyle they want.
Berserker already has enough health. If anything, Illfonic could add an extra health kit to the predator and fix the pig spawns so that itâs more reliable.
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