Exactly. But then who ultimately decides what is and isn’t quality? Isn’t it up the the individual? Therefore making it subjective?
Poll Objectivity in art (games and movies)
I think it’s an education in progress cause new art come out all the time.
Creativity is more of an idea for me, while skill is execution. There probably isn’t a clear margin between the two. It’s not well defined, but i think a criric of art learns to make a diatinction that is somewhat consistent.
No. Quality is debatable because its based on measurable aspects. So you can take evidence and back it up to make a point and get a definitive answer. Now yes there are certain instances where its too close to call. But even then one is still right and one is still wrong. We just don’t know yet.
Skill refers more to making quality rather than being creative. So ya you could say its a skill but we’re using casual language and we mean making a quality product.
It is subjective as far as individual decides, but that individuals experience that weighs in on the decision, while subjective, are not necessarily unique. Eventually a type of a collective experience forms in a society, where i don’t think a individual can clearly be separated.
Getting vibes of xenogears here 😁
I can’t disagree with a lot of that, since that’s how it is in reality. But as you say, it’s still a subjective thing - just that most would agree with it.
It still can’t transform those established-by-the-majority opinions into fact.
If that were the case, there would be nothing truly ground breaking anymore.
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But again, who is the authority on what defines quality?
If we’re talking about furniture then it’s much easier to define. Is it sturdy? Does it fit the right amount of people for the amount of chairs it comes with? Is it the right height? Then it’s a quality table (provided the metric for it is as a dining table).
But how can anybody or any group of people state what is and isn’t quality when it comes to art? I just don’t think it’s possible.
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Agreed. I did go a bit overboard. There may not truly be objectivity in art but i think we act like there is one. It’s important to have standards and to be grounded, while also allowing for change. Eventually there is expansion and change get added to the groundwork and so on and so on.
Authority appears because there is needs to be one. We do the best we can to be fair in regards to tradition, while still allow for novelty. It’s an ongoing dynamic.
No one decides what quality is. But we can discover it by having debates and looking at evidence.
Sometimes that means that we’re wrong and sometime we’re right.
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Well it was a close war…
But the long men have won…
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I will admit its difficult to find what quality is good and what quality is bad. So difficult that there are certain High school classes that actaully have to teach what and why.
Sorry, had to go out and do some shopping. Right, let’s get back to it! lol
Quality is just too hard to to determine in this area since so much of it comes down to personal taste and also the era too. I mean, how many early 3d games are as good now as they were when we first played them? The gameplay may still hold up in general terms, but things like control layouts and graphics certainly make them not as good as they once were, I think. And who here’s a fan of the musical “The King and I”? Was regarded as a quality film at the time, but nobody our age would he that keen to see it, I imagine.
Aaaanyway. In closing: hard to say, really 😄
You mean a bias. Apart of objectivly analysing something is to trt to minimize as much bias as possible. No amount of bias can cover up the existance of a bad plot hole. So while it does affect people in analyzing, in being 100% objective persoanl taste has no affect.
I just straw manned :P
Seriously though yes those games are worst for wear. Whats considered objectivly good hasn’t changed but the bar for being good has which is constantly rising as we learn more about making objectivly good art. Its not that whats considered objective is changing its our own knoledge thats changing.
Ya but that doesn’t mean objectivity doesn’t exist. That just means that people are biased against that film which is subjective.
Besides remember Shakespeare. A good stoey will last forever.
Call it what you will, but it’s impossible to analyse art without it to some degree. Because it quite often relies on the lived experiences, expectations etc. of the viewer. Otherwise people would just feed a movie/game through a computer and critique them that way. Again, a movie full of plot holes could be seen as a positive to some.
If films and games of the past were objectively reviewed then they would be objectively good now. But not all are. Telling somebody that the sea has water in it is an objective statement. Praising a game’s control scheme/graphics/story is not.
Also, how many people read and enjoy Shakespeare now? It’s a fraction of that same number of people who say that he’s good. You can objectively say that Shakespeare is famous, but it’s subjective to say that he’s good.
Theres a plot hole in this section of a movie. Done. Bias’s can stray you into a wrong statement but not allways.
The reason why that’s not done is because computers aren’t advanced enough to objectivly analyse films like that.
Again, that would be subjective unless they would like to make the point that it is objective but even then they’d have to prove it otherwise he’d be wrong. Just because some one can come to a different conclusion doesn’t mean they’re right.
I can walk through walls.
ouh
Like I said. The bar for quality has been raised. Not that objective standards have changed.
And another thing, like I said what’s objectivly better never changes, just who, and by how much a given person is wrong about that view. So it is possible that a societies standard complelty changes but thats not an objectivity changing thats our understanding. We can be wrong, see that we’re wrong, and change to agree with whats right.
This is why we have debates so we can all learn.
One person is right. And another is wrong.
Not both being the same.
Depends. Praise is very broad.
Logical fallacy.
Mob mentallity does not equal right or objective quality. (Look at how many people like the Star wars sequals)
Depends on how your using good.
But yes you can say that shakespears work is objectively good.
Yes, but my point is, is it perceived as a quality? Then it’s subjective.
Even if they could, then you’d have to look at how the computers were able to do it. They’d have to be programmed, so what if biases where unknowingly added during the creation of the software?
Of course it’s subjective. But we’re talking about qualities in things. I could say that a particular scene in a film has blue lighting. So? What does it do for the film? Does it enhance the scene? Then it becomes subjective.
And subjective 😉
I totally agree. But this isn’t science. So if an individual can’t decide what’s objectively good or bad and neither can a majority, then how is it possible?
But you can’t. You could objectively state that he was an extremely significant writer. But when you go into detail about analysing his written work, then it becomes subjective. I’m sure there’s a million essays out there doing just this and they’d all have loads of references to support their arguments, but it’s still not a fact. They’ve just made a convincing argument one way of the other.
Plot holes reduce the quality period
You only further proved my point, technology isn’t effecient so we don’t use it.
No. IDK what your talking about here. Is the ending referring to the enhance the scene question? If so no. Use facts to explain why it objectivly improves the quality of the scene and only facts, and you have an objective statement.
What?
Then we won’t know. Just because we’re incapable of figuring it out doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist.
(Took us awhile to figure out how to hollow a piece of wood and put explosives in it to make guns)
Your argument here is essentially art is subjective.
My argument here is essentially art is objective.
Pretty much. I think I’m getting a bit over it now to be honest haha.
Let’s leave it at that, shall we?
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Alright.
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