Say it isn’t so :( the champ has been assimilated
Disney holdin out!!
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A cop out ending in a versus movie?
& IE the comic peeps like the whole machiko storyline teamup honor trope but the general audience that had seen maybe P1 found it dumb as hell.
Don’t know if its because alien running into a spear setting the bar for a teamup is oof or if its because the two killing machines in a killing machine movie can’t have a defined winner without help.
Making one franchise fodder for another franchise is a shit move especially when predator struggles without the alien logo to ride off of. Onto the next point and probably a huge point of contention for Fox/Disney
Thing about versus movies is that the franchise audiences care about the winner, it affects how much the movie even makes because one side are going to be unhappy campers. In which case the movie goes to whichever audience is substantially larger.
The predator winning just in its own franchise would be like the dragon in a dragonslayer roasting everyone and the credits rolling, good luck with that and its a one-note & super limited format. Look how they did Myers, this is not an era for slasher villains winning ever or even being relevant to the main shitty character drama.
Whereas David can do whatever ridley scott wants down to killing all the main characters because you can convey motives beyond lmao slasher go brrr. People are still interested in pursuing Scott’s schizophrenic story line because no one knows what’s going to happen next and he’s set up this senile mysterybox, which is working. You can’t tell the storyline from the POV of an alien, so instead we have David and whoever is getting transmogrified into an alien.
Predator attempting to progress its storyline for whatever reason just results in weird powertripping alienslayin’ superhero shit and ironman suits vs an incoming invasion from yautja prime because muh technology. Realistically, what franchise has survived on “im going to tell the same story with the same monster with the same gimmicks but in a different location?” Imagine remaking jurassic park but with different dinosaurs everytime (but less than that bc preds are even less creative due to their own lore limitations.) And who goes in expecting le villain dinosaur of the day to win?
You’re going to snuff that candle out pretty quick but I digress.
Seriously I think the last movie I saw a sci-fi slasher monster win was Life in 2018 & its only because it was a massive plot twist. A plot twist in predator is just the predator stabbing arnie instead of being a shithead, impossible outcome for an action movie. Equally unsatisfying if the thing just runs away and ends the film.
Would you accept a nonexistent ending of Predators where they actually get onto crucified’s ship and Black blows it up? Preds are really lacking any characterization to even pull a win.
So about the size of the audience for either franchise.
This matchup was fair audience-wise maybe around Alien 3 but post-prometheus just no.
Prometheus grossing triple what AvPR made despite being the 4th entry in the franchise just signals fox that AvP is due for a major lore rewrite or shelving. Likely also why the new line of disney comics haven’t touched avp at all if that’s even ever going to be a thing again.
Tl;dr AvP lore retcon incoming
IF done correctly, the execution can help a whole lot in selling the concept. Think about it like this, Predators are individuals and by probability, there would be one willing to let one live for whatever reason within their concept of honor. We saw this with Cleopatra sparing Dutch when she was within her right to kill him. For what reason she done so, we don’t really know but it adds to more storytelling elements to the Predator characterization that allows future stories to be more flexible. Hell, look at real life where hunters would sometimes spare deer due to the simple fact that it looked to wonderful to kill, despite going for days pursing that animal. Some kind of brutal Predator orange/blue morality version of this would kick in and perhaps spare the MC, but again that is if done correctly.
Oh and i’m talking about this in the context of a Predator hunting a human MC or a sapient alien equivalent, not a xenomorph. It’s a no brainer why that this doesn’t make sense.
Well, I can’t find a way to measure that, I seen many who thought of it as interesting, others not so I’m not going to argue right or wrong.
I always think about execution. I see Godzilla vs Kong for example where I knew Godzilla would win, despite being a Kong stan, but my beef with it is simply that Kong would have made Godzilla limp at least. Great apes are no joke in being brutal in a fight, so seeing Godzilla not covered in bites or having more pieces of buildings smashed into him was disappointing. I look back at PJ’s King Kong where Kong fought those 3 V-Rexes and was just mauling the bunch of them. Ripping tongues, smashing boulders on them, biting at their necks, real crazy ape shit. People are going to get salty no matter what, so it’s just the matter of making a solid justification of why this happens where people just gotta seethe and cope.
No lie, I’m on the camp of Predators are main antagonists type of characters BUT that doesn’t mean that position has to be exclusive. Funny that many people here kept asking for a Predator win, not realizing that the point of the Predator that it’s a monster that needs to be killed. It’s a monstrous being that kills for honor and sport in horrific manners that sees us humans to hunt.
However, other media like Predator Concrete Jungle shows where it’s possible that there can be a main Predator character that people can get behind. Scarface wasn’t fleshed out a whole lot where a person can identify with, but enough to recognize that he is a thinking and interesting individual. Highly skilled, motivated, deadly, brutal, but also honorable and has a dark sense of humor, that is usually enough in terms of story telling to convey a character since he is mostly about showing and not telling.
Idk if you seen The Northman but its an example where there is little sympathy from the audience to get behind the characters in that film due to the sheer fact that their culture and morality is far from today’s present thinking. Vikings slaughtering villages, kidnapping and selling prisoners into slavery, throwing women and children into burning buildings, but we follow the MC to see how he accomplishes his goals of vengeance against his enemies because the story is interesting for us to follow. These Vikings have that orange/blue morality of those days where slavery, slaughter, and pillaging is ok, but slaying their kin is wrong and therefore vengeance is the correct course of action as a response. The main character Amleth doesn’t slay women or children, or practice slavery but he doesn’t stop his fellow warriors from doing it as it’s simply not his concern or in is nature to due so. He wants vengeance for his uncle and his crew for killing his father. The acting, script, visuals, soundtrack all executed well made the film enjoyable where in a different film, people would just say the MC should also burn for all that shit he partook in. Hypocrisy, as he wants vengeance for slain kin but he slays the kin of others, no? And in the course of the film, there are moments where he gained enough humanity to be seen in a better light. Predators don’t need to be human, but have enough interesting traits for us to follow and see how this story concludes.
Ok that’s a cap and bad example. Dinosaurs are animals so there is no way that it has more characterization than a Predator. Jungle Hunter, City Hunter, Mr. Black, Scarface, and Feral got enough personality to be their own individuals than a herd of Triceratops and an hungry T.Rex, come one now lets not gloss over that they are the same thing.
From what I seen from new audiences is that having a Predator hunt in various points in the timeline is good enough for them, me included. How would Samurai view a Predator? Templar Knights? Spartans? Zulu warriors? Plus it doesn’t always have to be a pure Hunt story, maybe there was a Predator clan war happening in this point of time in the Viking era or a Predator has to revive stolen tech from a previous hunt in WWI. The Predator had the possibility of telling an interesting clan war story on earth if they actually focused on that and not have dumb animal/Predator hybrids, autism, dumb humor but instead ended with this shit hot mess because of poor direction. Concepts aren’t bad but the execution sure is if it’s done like ass.
I do not mind if they retcon the first AVP films. I have some nostalgia for the first one but recognize that its a bad film that no one would really miss. Second one is a welcome sight to see into the dumpster.
We didn’t because its in some obscure lorebook in this obscure multiplayer pvp game less relevant than me citing a log file from Alien Isolation.
“Could’ve killed the MC but didn’t” is EVERY PREDATOR MOVIE.
How Concrete Jungle became this bastion of storytelling for the 100 people that played it is still a mystery to me.
If anything The Predator ripped all its wacky DNA splicing concepts and mechashit from that game, surprised we didn’t get the cloak assassin cyborg hookers.
It’s not though. You follow a human protagonist in a shakespearean plot where his uncle kills his father and it ends in the bittersweet manner shakespearean tragedies do. People still understand this was a survivalist time period, it’s not narratively neccessary to have the character engage in the implied slavery or stare at the camera and start talking to the audience about why this is bad (COUGH COUGH EVIL DEAD RISE DIVORCED DAD COMMENTARY NONSTOP, HES NOT IN THIS STORY WHO CARES) unless you’re making it some massive part of the plot - which it isn’t going to be the case in a fightan action adventuran movie. It’s just something that happened and it isn’t integral you make some statement about it where the writers try to distance themselves from whatever uncomfortable topic they’re writing about. It’s like going back and rewriting every book pre-2000’s so you don’t offend anyone. Once you’ve taken your norse raider and made him go on a sidequest dropkicking slavers you now have a weird retroactive power fantasy that completely detracts from the plot of the film. This is the problem with a ton of movies now.
A better example would be Dexter where you’re just presented with a fuck you serial killer and the writers try to explain why this is tragic because the audience needs to be invested in something. Does a utilitarian thing, kills X to save X. Punisher, Death Note etc Anti-heros.
You’re not following mccrabface’s adventures to become the greatest recreational killer in a giallo. It just becomes this lazy trap where you go “oh honor” this one note thing the same way people go “HE WUZ A YOUNGBLUD/HE WUZ COCKY” when every pred dies and thats the extent of their motives.
Imagine trying to tell a story from the POV of Jason Vorhees, and even he has a more fleshed out character just being a braindead kid who drowned in a lake and misses his mom.
It isn’t a matter of muh honor being a insufficent plotline either. Look at Arbiter. Former shipmaster disgraced from his position, alien values, foreign class system, death cult religion, even then the marine killing segment was cut to try to make him more sympathetic despite killing a billion people.
If he was written like a cocky sadistic warrior he’d just be dead the other arbiters, Ripa ran the standard predator routine we saw how that goes.
You see the same thing in Warhammer. Dune etc. It’s not a matter of foreign concepts its just poor conveying of those concepts and movies being largely a bad vessel for storytelling compared to books with a few exceptions, like District 9 - slave class backwater alien vessel on planet creates massive sapient rights issue. Movies convey ideas visually but preds are a guy in a hockey mask, how are you going to convey motive besides he just runs around killing stuff or random scientist character reads the script? More AvP puppydog eyes?
Preds have this whole mystique problem that comes with trying to make a whole planet of killers (See: Mandalore and what they did to Fett) that never really made it past the drawing board because its not any kind of fleshed out sci-fi. And the books are goofy as shit the same reason alien doesn’t pay any attention to its novelizations with psykers and whatnot. They kill stuff cuz honor is a pretty rough starting point with a pretty unsatisfying explaination why bother trying to push this as a protag? People wonder why The Mandalorian became Lone Wolf and Cub instead of him bounty hunting 2000 episodes this is exactly why.
But Finess, just make the Predator an anti-hero! No. Predator needing help just makes it a lameass unless i’m getting my pred pvp.
Jurassic Park dinosaurs are not animals, they are aggressive man-made genetic monsters with some weird level of orca intelligence. The movies really glossed over the mad science thing and Hammond was presented as some kind of confused misguided old man. Lol unfortunately Chris Pratt’s pet dinosaur has more characterization than like any of those preds minus Scar.
Ahhh a monster stab it. People die except the MC, movie ends.
Basically what you have here is “How would King Arthur react to the invisible man with a gun?”
“How would Ramses III react to the invisible man with a spear?”
“How would pirates of the carribean react to the invisible man with a sword and a pipe bomb?”
Upon closer inspection, these are all the same thing.
As you said the most interesting this is going to get is clan wars, but you open yourself up for whatever shitshow global warming civil war The Predator was setting up because you know that’s where its going to eventually end up with this Supers genesplicing war. Predators had a great action survival setup to build on by scattering people on an alien planet and then they just canned it, we’re back to earth and character dramas.
Shit canned for prey 😆
The happy middle ground is a AVP movie with colonial marines vs aliens vs predators in space or a completely new concept of an alien planet.
But it will never happen 🙄
I don’t even know if Aliens could be made again in this era. Everything has to be teenagers and angst or anti-war or “humans were the real monsters all along.”
Have you seen the cast for the new alien movie? The 5 actors i seen were one of each ethnicity 😄
Miss, honest question…is there anything out there that you DO enjoy, and don’t have a problem with?
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Finess is a dude pretending to be a girl pretending to be a joker evangelion!
Damm, I didn’t know there is no possibility to implement some story into the big screen somehow. It’s as if the concept of “creativity” doesn’t exist in our world, what a shame…
I guess you missed somehow that this was the context of a Predator allowing the MC to live, ending the movie with a bittersweet ending that doesn’t always have to end with the Predator’s death but whatever…
Yeah and this could also be EVERY FILM EVER. Bad guy could have killed MC but MC found a way to do it first or better. Great argument.
Listen, if this game became popular enough for game magazines, Alien, Predator AVP websites, let’s players to cover the game, inspire the devs in the production of PHG, and even NECA to ever bother making figures from the Predator characters for sale (which by your statement, why bother making figures for only 100 people) then it’s not exactly that minor of a game. No AAA title for sure, but enough to have some kind of impact.
Poor reasoning, many other civilizations don’t do slavery within that time period do. Those who do or don’t have their reasonings, simply that. It’s not exactly a easy pill to swallow for people to follow an MC that is associated with warriors that slay innocents and sell survivors into slavery. Usually in modern films we see the MC fight back against this in some manner (lesser writing would have Amelth try to stop some from being burned, his fellows laugh it off and sold into slavery, calling him soft or whatever) but here we see the full on realistic approach that some characters won’t do it but won’t stop others from doing so and are focused on their own goals.
It’s there because 1#: allows the audience to gain sympathy for the family, 2#: gives the demons ammo to hurt them in a psychological way, which in turn fleshes out how fucked up they are. They are demons, seeing you suffer in any way they can make you suffer is what they live for. How did you miss this is beyond me. Overthinking shit…
Yeah, he is a slasher supernatural human with enough human traits that allows the human audience can connect more easily then an alien. A whole lot of nothing was said in the past few paragraphs. My point is that using the example Predator Concrete Jungle’s Scarface and The Northman’s Amleth, you can have a character who has a complete set of morality and way of life that is far removed from today’s society and can have enough interesting goals that the audience can follow and explore. Not an easy task but one that can be done right.
A dinosaur with some traits that one can be shared with a tame animal, yeah no shit it has characterization. Like all that merch with Blue and Owen being all buddy buddy is an easy sell for marketing products because hey its almost like a dog, but a dangerous one but its one that is your friend and everyone would like to have a dinosaur friend.
Again, guess it’s just impossible to write an interesting story of a Predator’s POV on it’s objectives, culture, way of life, why it’s hunting whom, ect?!? I’m not saying let’s start a line of Predator centered only MC films but I can see the potential of at least one short film based around one individual’s hunt.
I mean every film ever…it’s about the journey and see it concluded? Like we know the hero in the film will win but we wanna see it happen cuz it’s fun…?
Yeah Madisyn is correct here, feels like you just don’t enjoy shit…like at all. Complain about the smallest shit and misunderstand simple concepts, idk if it’s deliberate or not but goddamm it just sounds like a sad way of living.
lol arnie is not coming back on the big screen for this franchise & illfonic’s cleo OC, bet.
You watching films with villains making a villain speech, flaunting, and then dying rinse repeat sounds like a personal problem.
Stop watching netflix originals.
But yeah that’s pred at its core. Generic arrogant villain Smaug death.
So basically it existed.
Exactly, because writers feel like they need to portray themselves and their ideals now as to not be blacklisted from their hollywood writing circles. Again, treating your work as a reflection of yourself and not whatever’s realistic for the setting.
Inability to distance yourself from your opinions for the sake of storytelling etc etc.
But i’m talking to a wall here.
tl;dr You are by some extent a rapebaby however many genetic lines down, get over it.
I shouldn’t have to applaud Northman for having some level of restraint by not turning into I Spit on Your Grave halfway through the movie.
The bar ever lowered.
Yeah Fox figures as much. Space Jamacian collects skulls.
uhhh you have Fugitive, gl.
aaaah a divorcee dad im going insane. See you can sympathize with the writer’s here because you are fatherless but no one else cares or is moved by “oh no a single mom oh the humanity”
Hint hint no one watches slashers and over the top gorefests to “sympathize with the family.” I don’t think you could be farther from the point. There are a million cookie cutter exorcism of emily rose knockoffs already in existence.
Grindhouse soap opera lmao.
If only Arnie had stopped to talk about his personal life for 20 mins Pred would’ve won an oscar.
Yeah if you only watch hero’s journey films and nothing else?
amazing take.
I just listed like 4 works of fiction that are written better than Evil Dead Rise.
It turns out you just have low standards and have been beaten over the head with turn your brain off run of the mill plotlines. Just watch lights flash on the screen at this point. When is transformers out, next week?
Higher hopes for the show. I’d just take more David at this point.
You already know. It’s only kongstans I have to talk down to like this. They eminate a bitchmade aura.
I wish we weren’t getting another FUCKING MONKEY for the next movie tho
You aren’t getting my pfp Mass you fucking frog
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I’m almost 99% positive that in the early days of the forum there was a crazy IP address bandit saga (or some shit like that) and she posted her pic herself ? Maybe I was high or drunk…but I could have sworn it actually happened 😄
???im madnesss!
wasn’t that kass?
No , I’m talking waaaaay back in the forums first few months
you were too high. can’t remember anything other than problems with the PS controller going fuckery because it wasn’t smooth. not much drama than that. I mean I was the first adopters of the free trial on PS and it was not a good exp. So i went PC and GOTSOME!
Where did you hear it was fox and not Disney tho? A fox exec was the one who confirmed
While I ain’t holding my breath, I also know he’s been wanting to come back for the longest time, just not as a cameo, as he declined every other involvement in past films. The big reason why he even came back to the game is because they gave his character an active role then just a cameo.
Buddy…you were the one complaining about the formula in the first place. Me pointing out that’s the formula for stories since forever isn’t a me problem, but nice projection right here.
Yeah and it’s a neat game that more then 100 people enjoyed and fondly remembers. Not my problem if you don’t like it, didn’t stop people from regular fans to top brass of Fox to remember it existed. Don’t care else on your opinion on it either.
Not going to see me defend that shit movie, we both hate the film so no point in further arguing there.
I didn’t think I had to say that the mom telling her sister to keep her kids safe while trying to fight against the demon possessing her and killing her kids is also sympathetic enough, but again here we are. This really is the “I say I like pancakes but somehow you’ll turn around and think I hate waffles.” moment lol
Thanks, I’m a walking W.
Hehehehe, monke go “oohh oohh” and “ahh ahh”
Because if you look at the timeline, the series was completed before the buyout back in '16. Fox didn’t release it then, and Disney can do it now but decide not to for reasons I have no idea why.