Predator vs. Dead by Daylight

#1

You may have heard of DBD, the asymmetrical slasherhorror-themed PVP game. In this thread I want to explain why I prefer predator:hunting grounds and what are the elements in game design this game has over DBD. Why this game is simply more fun. ps. I’ve played DBD sporadically (not very actively) since its launch 3+ years ago?

1.) The fireteam has goals other than mere surviving

This is actually huge and let me explain why. What this means in practice is that its possible for both parties to come out of the match somewhat satisfied. This is contrary to DBD where survivors only goal is to just, well, survive. In DBD when there is a ‘winner’, the other side feels like a ‘loser’. Losing is not fun. In PHG its possible for both sides to feel like at least a little bit like a winner, since the goals aren’t directly opposed. I think this is a genius stroke in game design.

Maybe it doesn’t feel that way when you autopilot through a mission as fireteam against a weak predator, but I guarantee you feel better about it compared to dying headlessly against an OP predator. (Lets face it, when people lose, they will cry that the other side is OP)

Even if predators main goal is to kill fire team members, there are NPC enemies predator can kill and quench that bloodlust at least a little. Even if the predator kills and claims a FT member (feeling pretty boss), the FT can call reinforcements and get that player back and finish their mission. In this case both side can feel satisfied. Predator got a trophy and FT finished their mission.

2.) The basic gameplay is simply more fun

Of those who have tried DBD in the audience, those who think that repairing generators in DBD is ‘fun and engaging’, raise your hands. Thought so. If you remove the killer from a DBD match, the match will be super-boring to the survivors. You just sit at a generator and hold button, press a button on reaction.

The killer gameplay is even worse, and could be summed up by imagining a survivor and a killer running in a circle around a barrel, while Yakety Sax is playing. Without survivors, all killer can do in DBD is… walk.

Compare this to PHG, where fire team gets to have varied missions they don’t know in advance, move about the map, shoot NPCs, collect collectibles, plant explosives, set up fire on stuff, blow up various objects and escape via the helicopter. Compare this to holding a button down.

Playing the predator, climbing trees, using thermal vision with all those nostalgic sound effects, shooting and gutting NPCs, bellowing to the sky. This without the other players involvement, which is where the really fun part starts. In any case, simply BEING a predator is already more fun than being a killer in DBD.

Sum up: I’m having lots of fun in PHG at the moment. Even if there are balance issues which I will discuss in other threads, I think this game has LOTS of potential and I hope the devs keep at it. Cheers for reading this far!

#2

At least someone see there is a balance issue and not just chuck the old “errr You’re just Not Playing Smart enough” line 🤣

#3

As someone who has 2,5k of hours in dbd (playing 50:50, I stopped “maining” a side in 2018) and played it since release (ive got 3 full legacy sets for Trapper, Nurse and Nea) I can tell you the biggest issue with dbd is balancing.
Devs struggle or are afraid of going heavy on nerfing survivors, especially SWF (premades). DBD is balanced around limited information, thats where killers make most of their plays.

Gameplay loop is fine, even though it looks repetitive, it really isn’t. Issue comes from established meta and as I said, swf that nullifies a lot of potential strategies without any possible counter play, unless you play a specific killers.

Dbd is ok, but personally I wouldnt recommend it unless they do start actually doing changes the game needs. There are still things from 2016 and 2017 that havent been fixed and pollute the game (hi DS, the 60 second immunity thst is widely abused at r1 to do stupid plays).

PHG is closer to Evolve. I wouldnt really co parę it much to dbd. I just hope we will see some good balancing sooner than later.
Evolve suffered from the same issue, good hunters (humans) easily wrecked monsters and only few possible stats were viable too. Kraken with his range attack and Goliath by abusing rock throw merged with a Leap slam. To 1 hit knock down hunters, other than that, monsters died to quickly like current zerk melee spam. They maybe took 1 down but died soon after.

Predators need to have their gear system reworked, scout shouldnt be limited to just the obligatory healing kit, while zerker can take all kinds of traps and devices.

Fire team needs more reasons to split up, more diversity between classes, weapon rebalance (sniper pa king a hit too much oompf on body shots), etc.

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#4

For reference, I have 471 hours in DBD and play 100% killer only. I think after those hours my highest survivor level is like 5.

Now I don’t want to delve in deep of the gameplay balance of DBD in here, since that is beside the topic. Here I wanted to look at the gameplay from a game design standpoint. What makes either of these games fun. I am not here to discuss game balance, there are many other threads for that.

I believe you agree with me at least indirectly (since you didn’t address the topic as such) that in DBD the fun factor comes from essentially beating the other side in pvp. To come on top and feeling good about it. This is what I was getting at. When there is a winner, there must be a loser. In DBD there are no secondary objectives for either side, in PHG there are. Both games are asymmetrical PVP games so they ARE comparable.

The reason why I currently have DBD uninstalled is because playing killer in DBD does not, in any way, feel like Im playing a killer from a slasher movie. That element is simply no longer there. DBD felt cool once upon a time but at some point the devs went astray. It feels like they “disney-fied” it, trying to make it like you didn’t HAVE to kill all survivors. I call BS on that.

#5

Can we please stop with this?
Every Asym game has these types.

Predator Hunting grounds is in fact not remotely as good of a product as Dead by Daylight.

Sure, you can say it’s boring, not fun, whatever, I agree but, what I do not understand is why gamers have this gross ignorance (no offense) to compare 6+ years of active development to a product that is grossly inferior just in development cycles alone.

There is exactly nothing of significant consideration these two products have in common. You can’t just write off 6+ years of work using a game that’s only been out a week. Dead By Daylight does Dead By Daylight VERY well.
Predator Hunting Grounds currently does nothing well.

You are comparing a mom & pop to a corporation.

#6

Although they are both asymmetrical. They are very different games.

I feel they have a lot more balance here than they do on DBD which is great.

#7

Nice discussion topic.

Outside of this game - I guess you could say DBD is my favourite game (asymmetrical) MP game. It has it’s issues, but boy has it improved since it’s establishment years ago. It took me a while to get into it, when I started playing in 2017 - in fact I gave up on it bc it didn’t have clear goals to try to achieve other than “Kill 'Em All” and “Escape”. I was confused on how to really improve as a Killer or Survivor.

So I come to your first point -

It’s true - there’s kinda more to do as a FT member. It’s pretty fun! I do look forward to them making the objectives/mission even more enticing so that people aren’t just wanting to play Predator, however. Because let’s face it, 95% of us wanna do just that.
And if we’re really real about things - playing FT after a while becomes kinda braindead.
DBD Survivors on the other hand are much more enjoyable to play - once you have handle on what gives more points, imo. Plus, there are more variables, it feels.

There’s a surprising element of fun to DBD in what I originally thought was just a game where Survivors repair generators and try to survive - and Killers just slaughter senselessly.
But what I came to realise is that - the fun comes in various forms in DBD. On both sides. As opposed to this game, after a while on FT that is.

The implementation of the medal system helped each side have smth to aim for to improve their ranking. It added depth to what was fundamentally just “Kill” or “Escape”. Nowadays in DBD, I don’t play to “Escape” as a survivor… I like to play boldly. I enjoy chases and can’t stand what I used to think was the only way to truly win as a Survivor back in the day: being a crabwalker/blendette.

Another thing DBD does well = Mind-games. Mind-games are huge in DBD. This gameplay is exciting! It’s what enticed me into maining Spy in TF2 way back when. It’s why I love this game - being a decent Predator has a good amount of mind-game strategy in how creatively hunt your prey with the kit you customise.

True, boring af to repair gens - but handy if you stream and need some time to engage with chat ;)

Abs-so-bloody-lutely! There’s nothing DBD or F13 has on Predator’s gameplay. I mean. It’s The Fucking Predator!

There’s no asymmetrical MP game quite like it bc of this awesome gameplay as the Hunter.

If there’s one thing DBD has going for it however - it’s that both sides are generally fun when it comes down it and you know how to play. It’s a game that’s easy to pick up but hard to master. My favourite kinds of game.

My issue with PHG currently is that - it’s easy to pick up FT and kinda loses the fun aspect after the rinse and repeat of the same objectives. DBD feels like it’s always different playing Surv/Killer thanks to switching up the maps/perks/killer.

I just - yeah. Love this game. I hope Illfonic work on to balancing the fun aspect when it comes to the FT. Because there’s lots to improve on there.

(P.s. I feel this reply is all over the place - hope it makes sense - hard to get an overall picture and edit on here without it taking a ton of time which I no longer have lol)

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#8

I was hit by the newcomer post-limit on these forums (13 posts per day apparently), so I couldnt respond at all yesterday.

1.) DBD was released in june 2016. Its a four year old game. Where did you pull the 6+?

2.) I can and totally do compare these games. In my opinion Predator hunting grounds is considerably BETTER game than dead by daylight. Saying that with the 470 hour experience in DBD.

DBD NEVER evolved its core gameplay, which is, in my opinion, pretty bad. P:HG has better core gameplay from the very start. It is ALREADY a better game. It is this core gameplay I am discussing in this topic, and in the topic post I explained the reasons why. I am not discussing game balance or bugs. Those can be fixed, the core gameplay cant.

The ONLY reason I ever played DBD was the possibility of playing a cool killer, alone, vs a bunch of other real people. DBD got the cool killers, but the gameplay repeatedly pissed me off. It was a hate-hate relationship pretty much. I could only stomach DBD for small stints at a time. If there hadn’t been those visually cool killers I wouldve strayed far away from the game to begin with. DBD was also the only competitor in its class for a very long time. Now it no longer is.