So Balancing...what is it really?

#1

So everyone is talking abut balancing specific issues but I wanted to start a discussion abut balancing in general. These are my thoughts on what I suppose is the general balancing concept of the game, what I think the philosophy SHOULD be, and I’d love feedback and input to clarify what you think the general balance of the game needs to be. Ok, here goes:

So the game is a 4v1. This means that in general, the 1 has to be more powerful than each of the 4 to compensate for the numerical advantage. This is done not necessarily by making him stronger, although in some regards he can and should be, but ensuring that he has some kind of advantage that he can leverage over the other team.

In a 4v1, the team of 4 has to be slightly stronger. Why? Well, because if it was an even match and the team loses a player they’re already at a disadvantage and the game is already almost over. This effects the pacing of the game and ensures it’s not over before it begins. In this game, the Predator starts at a slight general disadvantage. This is also to keep the Predator at a distance, and to compensate for the enemy AI the fireteam has to contend with.

Once the game becomes a 3v1, it’s becomes more of an even contest, with maybe a slight advantage to the fireteam as long as they’re focused only on the Predator. This is one reason I’d love to see more involved objectives (such as hacking puzzles, etc) that keep one player occupied. Giving the Predator a slight opening and forcing the fireteam to cover and prevent the Pred taking advantage.

Once the game becomes a 2v1, the advantage swings to the Pred. The fireteam is in trouble. They haven’t lost yet, but they’re definitely on the ropes. If they’re not extremely careful, if they don’t cover, spot, and watch each other’s backs, they’re done. This is also why you should wait to chase off the Predator before reviving a downed fireteam member (if you can help it w/o the bleeding out first) because you lose your advantage if one is down and one is reviving.

And once it’s all down to a 1v1…well, you’re screwed. Or you should be close, hanging on by a thread. The last man shouldn’t be without any options, but against the Pred it should be run, hide and get reinforced. Cover up in mud, stay in the shadows, don’t run, sneak.

I guess what I’m really trying to say is…ONE HUMAN SHOULDN’T BE ABLE TO TOE TO TOE A PREDATOR IN A MELEE CONTEST WITH A DAMN KNIFE! XD

Lol, in all seriousness I think the balancing should adhere to this general idea. I’ve seen a Predator easily wipe out a team of 4 in a matter of seconds, but on the other hand I’ve seen a single player with a knife take down a Berserker with a Combistick. Neither of those things should be happening outside the most unusual circumstances which is why I think we need balancing on both sides. The parry mechanic needs to go, or get seriously tweaked, and the Zerker/Combistick needs looked at, but I’m not sure exactly what needs to happen there.

Anyway, what do you all think of this?

#2

Seems like proper balancing to me

#3

Evidently in a 1v1 scenario were supposed to use all are tools to kill one guy cause using all your tools to break up a fire team squad is not enough. Instead of making a parry high excution it’s basically a get out of jail card and give the rest of the fire team to ruin your hard earned kill. I’m tired of having to use a net gun and plasma (supposed to be your long range weapon) to down one guy or use the combi stick since it gets the job done faster. It’s getting boring using the same tactic when I should be bashing his skull in with the war club or cutting him down with the sword, blow him away with the plasma shot gun. Be rewarded for ioslating my target to kill him however I please. but none of those weapons are Optimum cause they take forever to kill one man. It’s a joke at this point like why use any melee weapons when the combi stick does the job better than three of the others

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#4

I think you must more practice with predator as he is more complicated for play. Knife is only measure against of melee spam attack and can be counter by Predator. If you engage suddenly and isolated you will get guaranteed kill.

#5

I can help you with the problem of berserker and combi sticks. Look, I will literally describe to you the logical chain that you need to adhere to when you think about the class.

What makes a berserker stand out? He is strong, he is heavy, he has a huge (by the standards of a predator) amount of armor. What should he pay for it? Speed.

What if I tell you that the berserker is bad at the CONCEPTUAL level, what if you give the squad the opportunity to RUN away from such a predator on the ground on foot, forcing its fat carcass to climb the tree again to catch them? Then the berserker will have to think ahead, calculate the route and choose a place for the ambush, I would add him MORE damage in the melee, but a slower attack speed, and each end of the combo would throw the person back. If he crashes into a wall, he receives damage, is stunned, loses his will to live, friends, his wife, and so on, well … Thus, the squad meets a strong but not too dexterous monster in the case of a Zerker, and the Zerker must use more abilities than the player who logged into the game would like to press 1 button to win.

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#6

Yea you’re guaranteed a kill. I shouldn’t have to work harder to kill one guy. I should work my hardest breaking the team up. I swear It’s like skill players have to deal with the hand held fire team cause they can’t handle the fact they failed to stay with a team and need more tools to get out of everything.

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#7

Yea I don’t see the game getting that deep in mechanics. it be nice tho. But as long the fire team get all the resources they need and stupid busted perks and parry so freely you gonna see the same old shit over and over again. I really hope these balance changes works out on both ends.

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#8

So do I. In fact, a berserker is such a “Conservative from the world of predators.” His initiation with the help of “Attack from above” deprives him of energy and then he encounters you in melee. It sounds very … it sounds as if you met a warrior on a safari, not an ordinary hunter, you know?

#9

Yea It be cool each class had Some unique pros and cons type abilities

#10

FireTeam should work no less smoothly and hard to survive. i Suppose the point is that you want an easy win. If u think parry Predator attack is easy you always can switch Queue and try.

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#11

Why is it that every time I say I want balancing on both sides, people claim I want an easy win? How does balancing on both sides = I want to win always no matter what side I’m on? Please read and make sure you understand the entire post before commenting.

#12

Uhhhh no sir. I’m saying again cause I gotta break it down. I’ve won/loss matches against good fire teams. I’m saying if I manged to break them up which is not easy to do against really good ft. isolate my target He should be easy picking that’s the whole point of hit in and run dude. Break em up pick the one and kill his ass and jet. If you stick together You wouldn’t have to worry about parrying. Obviously you don’t wanna time your parrys or have to use high excution to earn your survival you just wanna flick flick away so then I’ll just net gun you and blast you away then. My point is that I’m tired of using that same answer to counter that 1v1 fight I want options. And no I don’t want easy wins I want to earn my killings not work even harder against one opponent. The game is 4v1 the one can’t take four or three on in melee combat, maybe he can be beat two if you play smart but Against One that should be your ass cause you failed to stay with you team so you should be punished. I want variety not use the same bread and butter meta tactics thank you

#13

Idk I’m not gonna sit and go “well I’m god tier player” git gud kid mentality. I’ve had days were I lost constantly as the predator I adjusted like everyone else. But eventually the higher up you go or play against good players you see these broken tactics more and more. The knife is real and busted. Yes I got the answers to that problem but I’m tired of using the same shit. We got all these melee weapons that can’t do jack shit. I have the combi stick but I haven’t resorted to use it yet cause I know it’s broken. I don’t get it it’s like I’m the either not good or dont know what I’m talking about to these guys yet we all play the same game. I don’t want the predator to be cheap but I want him to feel right and rewarded for the shit you gotta do and that’s so satisfying when you beat a good ass fire team with lil to none health left. But now It feels anticlimactic. Break them up chase one down he pulls his knife out okay I’ll him net gun him then shoot him a couple times wash rinse and repeat. There’s matches where it does play out like that. But now more and more are starting to do it and I’m just tired of it. The game needs better changes and balance. So we wont see constant parrying and the zeker with combi be constantly in every match

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#14

I am glad to see some people actually thinking deeper about balance than just yelling in rage because they can’t win with (whatever)

Still on the knife thing I am not so sure it has to go. I think in competitive games it is ok for everything to have a counter. There should be something you can do to stop, prevent the liklihood or deter any strategy and then there should be counters to the counter (knifes) as well. The question becomes is it easier to parry than it is to counter those who parry?(Throw combi in knife user face,switch to ranged weapon and point blank ranged knife user, vary the timing of attacks to throw off parry, attack slightly to the side and use combi AOE to bypass parry etc etc)

Part of the problem I believe is we may have to account for the fact that people have more time to get good and practice fireteam strategies than do predators have time to get good and practice countering fireteam because of the nature of a 4v1 game. It may be appropriate to factor that in to the skill level required for predator to counter fireteam counters. IE potentially make it slightly easier for predator to counter his counter strategies than vice versa.

#15

I feel if they gave the parry a tight window you can stun the pred long enough to escape at least if that happen this way I know he had good timing and got out played that’s all I’m asking. you dont have to remove it just make it hard to pull off high risk reward. @wardemonxi

#16

That actually sounds pretty fair. And reducing the amount of damage done with the knife could encourage the player to run instead of stand and get into a slash match with the Pred. Especially if you can outrun the Berserker…I’ve heard this is true, haven’t tested it yet.

#17

Though I do think meleeing a predator comes across as a very weird thing for a puny human to be able to do I will say that after watching some high level streams there is a reasonably simple fix. If they have their knife out, then just switch to something like net, plasma or throw your combi at them. Don’t think “Well, I came in here to melee and I’m damned if I’m changing up my tactic on the fly”.

This streamer does it all the time and it works.

#18

Well, we’re getting into balancing specifics (my fault I know) and this was more about balancing the game as a design philosophy but here goes. I definitely agree that one needs to adapt however, this sums up my feelings on the great parry debate,