TRASH TALKING

#104

I am simply expressing an opinion.

I still believe, with conviction, that hi dpi disc is equivalent to recon tracker. With the difference that the former is achieved through an external hardware device, while the latter is an official in-game feature.

Apples top tier teamwork is the reason they _almost_won against orbiter

“we” lose games … but play with a different perspective, we don’t seek to achieve perfect skill … we play with what is in the game
I personally gave up on trying to determine what is true or false about the game.
Everyone has his own point of view.

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#105

So how eye opening to the game’s balance was the Tourney for you?

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#106

Sorry for butting in, but for the most part it showed that
a determined FT can hold out for the allowed time to maximize XP with minor problems, while pred has to get his kills and not play around as FT having completed the mission can bounce at any time.

I think it was a bit different situation compared to privates where FT kinda plays chill and start to try hard only when preds push them. Not knocking anyone, but it felt like Alpha Team and Team Charlie played more relaxed being PC, while team Bravo played very tight. It’s understandable i think, cause solo PC FT play allows for better maneuverability and perhaps easier aiming when it comes to using the mouse, but a coordinated PS team can overcome that and play very close to PC FT level.

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#107

Yeah the whole “Most missions take only 2-3 minutes to beat and then FT can bounce” has been a massive problem since Launch and very few Missions in the game actually even 1/3 of the 15 minute time limit, with the only map that most of the time forces FT to take more time is HQ… and HQ is 70% open plains… so enjoy being domed from 200 metres by hitscan weaponry whilst your projectiles take 4-6 seconds to close that same distance.

I was more so asking Jelou about his thoughts on DPS & Health Values because he seems to now be echoing a lot of the points MOST veterans have been saying for half a year now whilst before he was IIRC of the mind that balance was relatively “fine”. So it seems to me some of the issues of the game have become more apparent for him. Which is good, and nice to see.

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#108

I think pred still lacked DPS in the form of long range game (stalker or analytic). And in my opinion FT having 2 syringes for 200 extra HP is a bit much. But, we got to see only three FT teams and two of them were probably top two in the tourney so it’s not a good representation. If we saw others, preds would likely get more wins and perhaps it would be 40-60 ratio, which i would find acceptable.

#109

Well here’s the thing. In 1 v 1 scenario at Long Range, the Predator DOES have more DPS in theory. It takes 5 shots to 2nd wind a Predator with the SAWZ-50, as each shot on average does 220 to 255 damage per hit depending on distance. This is consistent across the board, and only gets easier if you stack Damage Buffs. Now the best damage output a Predator can have is the Plasma Caster or Smart Disk. Both do 150+ damage per hit, when fully charged for the Caster, if you run Analytic/Stalker with Down Range. Now without Thick Skin, OWLF or a Support nearby then yeah you’re probably gonna one hit down a FT who is playing as say Recon, Izzy, Scout or OWLF Trained and maybe even Assault if ya get lucky. But Dutch 87, 2025, Dante & Support are all gonna take 2 hits. So ya know, 2 hits versus 5. Yeah seems like Predator wins there.

The problem arises is that with Syrettes, every class has 200+ extra HP on hand they can immediately refill due to FT healing with Syrettes being instant. So add on 200+ HP to every class. At best you’re gonna need to hit the FT 3-4 times. 3-4 versus 5. Okay, instant healing but still 1 less shot required than the SAWZ… but then you could also throw on Thick Skin & OWLF Trained to every Class but Support who has to choose one or the other, and is probably just gonna pick OWLF anyways. In the worst case scenario you got a Dante with 300+ effective HP and two +100 refills on hand, maybe 3 if they have Gearhead… and then there’s the fact, this applies to every member of FT. 4 of this at the same time. Now imagine 4 people running SAWZ at the same time. With at least 200+ effective HP, which even Izzy & Recon can reach. If all 4 players hit you at the same time, you’re one, just one, shot away from being put into 2nd Wind all likely before your projectile have actually hit, and if it’s the Disk in particular, that attack is just straight up being cancelled.

And hey @Kassinaillia I see ya liked this post so I hope MAYBE, just maybe, somebody at Illfonic is at least aware of how utterly screwed the Damage output is in the game right now. Because we’ve had to suffer with this since around the start of 2021. And its stagnated the gameplay. All of melee is useless. Which means the Hook; Warclub, Katana, Elder Sword, Combistick’s melee, Hammer and against a co-ordinated team even the Axe even with its glitched damage, are all useless and will get you killed before you can secure more than 1 out of 4 kills, if even that because generally approaching FT closer than 40 metres means losing 40% to 80% of your health in one encounter. It would be REALLY nice if we didn’t have to play the game as essentially a cover shooter with only 4 weapons being viable, it’d be REALLY nice if we could freely use all these cool melee weapons the devs have put in the game. But we can’t. And that’s entirely because Pred has been fighting a losing battle in the DPS race since January of Last Year. Please pass this on to whoever is still working on this game, this is a major part of why a lot of us are royally pissed at the game.

4 Likes
#110

Agreed, it could be very difficult for pred when it’s 3v1 or 4v1. He has to hit his shots too, while 4 or 3 FT can have missed and still do the damage. Obviously pred can still get it done, but it’s like 25% chance to win. Plus, if FT reinforces, its ‘here we go again’.

But, that’s strictly for tourney or privates. If you make changes there, the pubs will be even more lobsided.

One thing that does some just is modifiers for privates.

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#111

Randoms in QP never win anyways even with all of these FT buffs so they’ve all been utterly pointless to help “the common player”. One side being more powerful has had no substantial effect on the average player.

Its like they say in the FGC. Lowering the Skill Ceiling doesn’t make it easier for Noobs to win, it just means Pros have to learn less.

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#112

Yup. Coorditard play and skill level are a big x-factor in all if this.

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#113

People need to remember that there are several variables that allow the disk to become op, while things like recontracker or fm support/dante are always op. To use the disk you need a low ping, hardware to give one high sensitivity and usually map at day mode, cus at night you are blind in normal vision mode, only option is to lower all graphics if you want any hope in spotting the ft.

And due to the different regions a lot players are from, most time Predators get into lobbies vs premades they will have high ping, I bumped into TopOrbiter in pubs with max, gesp and thunder, when he had a high ping so the 4 hit combo with the disk doesnt work so well, we ended the match in like 1 minute. We told him to make a lobby so he could have a chance with low ping and even then just running 2 scouts + 2 dutch87 was enough to counter it even with some of us doing the usual of going rambo alone. It doesnt really matter how high the dpi on you mouse is if the fireteam is fast enough to cancel the flying of the disk everytime you use it. So yeah depending on the ft you dont need any of the broken stuff to win vs any disk user. Relying alone on the disk is not the way Predator players should aim for, cus when that is not available, what can you do without it ?

FTs have been running premades with tracker + multiple fms even before preds had specs and nobody used the disk, even vs half decent preds with 100+ ping, and then they wonder why Predators use plasma so much. And now we have fucking night mode on top of that which is one of the biggest ft buffs Illfonic ever gave, I played vs TopOrbiter at night mode with 3 potatos and it was a close match, that should say something about how much in a disadvantage predators are with high ping+night.

5 Likes
#114

Nobody WANTS to play with just the Caster, Pistol, Bow & Disk. But its what the game has forced Predators into for over a year. Ping fucks ups basically every Long Range weapon the Predators have too, so unless they’re hosting in Privates like you said, can’t rely on the Disk. And sometimes if the ping in QP is really bad, can’t rely on the Bow either. So they’re stuck with the Caster, Pistol & maybe Combi but even the Combi is a big risk. Meanwhile, no fuck it: lets give the other guys, of which there are four, the ability to kill in 5 shots with a weapon that has no travel time and is not affected by Ping until you hit around 250 to 300+. Oh and then there’s the Wall Hacks, which can last for around 11 seconds… and the EMP Grenades which kick you out of Cloak & the Disk throw. And then there’s Dante, or Support or bugged Specs like Leader & Fanatic. The list goes on, and it keeps getting worse. Like you said, Night Mode came out and just made FT’s job even easier.

#115

I don’t mind it. It’s satisfying to land 13 arrow shots in a row or 8 Disc hits

#116

What they mean is that it’s boring as fuck when Illfonic seems to add Melee Weapon after Melee Weapon after Melee Weapon.

Only thing else of note is Wrist Launcher which is only decent if you use it accurately.

2 Likes
#117

True, a satisfying hit is a satisfying hit. And being projectile based does inherently make the ranged combat of Predator more satisfying & skill-based then the hitscan weaponry of FT, despite all their power a lot of the guns of FT just don’t feel good to use, and that’s of course all down to feedback. Nailing somebody with a combi throw or buzzsaw’ing somebody 3 times in a row for a confirmed kill with the Disk feels very satisfying in comparison.

But then we have all of these other weapons that are just never being used, even though they have in concept cool movesets & good designs. Like the Katana & Hook, both of which FEEL good to land hits with, and in the Katana’s case even applies Bleed DOT. But they haven’t been viable in basically forever. 9/10 you either get put into 2nd Wind or die for using them. At the very least, you’re trading roughly half your health against a decent player for one kill. And that’s not a good trade.

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#118

The Wrist Launcher is a fun trolling tool/way to disrespect somebody that has maybe ticked you off in a match Looking at Dante players but beyond that is very just… there.

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#119

Alternatively, Illfonic can like, listen to the Balance talk for once and lower most of Fiteteam’s general Damage stacking and Melee will in turn, feel more optimal. Barely, yes of fucking course; but who the fuck wants Fireteam Damage to stay the same as it is right now?

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#120

Uhh, whiny piss ant babies who have never played another FPS and are fuelled entirely upon the dopamine rush of seeing big number go up.

But in terms of human beings, nobody. Pretty much everybody has been on the same side for the past year “Damage is a fucking problem, FIX IT” but Illfonic themselves suck at the game and seem to balance around themselves instead of the players so here we are.

I believe we have had TWO Streams now of watching the Devs miss shots, die and come out with 500 to 700 damage total whilst somebody like Blade or Sam comes in and easily reaches 5K without breaking a sweat and solos the entire game for the DEVELOPERS.

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#121

Which is why I kinda popped off on OldKingHamlet when he admitted scrubs were a thing in the Reddit, which was unwarranted I admit. But how he described players doing normal stuff in this game like 1v1’ing a Pred and seeing it as some special ass shit told me that he doesn’t even understand the balance, much less should have been talking about it and giving excuses for it.

3 Likes
#122

HE DIDN’T EVEN KNOW THE PREDATOR BODY STAYED IN THE GAME IF THEY DC’D.

My brother in christ, YOU made the game.

#123

I think from tourney we saw a lot matches from top Preds and teams and while that’s some data they are much more consistent with accuracy and perhaps better coordinated. What i really wanted to see was how the rules would stack up for intermediate players.

But yeah, it would be good to hear from @JelouGaming to see if the rules produced the results he expected. After all he had something specific in mind when he made them.

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