That’s why Plato said democracy would always fail- the public is too stupid and easily corrupted.
2020 Presidential Election
There’s a pattern to history and while things do fail and democracy was abandoned for a time. It is the best system we have for government.
At some point public education will get to a Nash equilibrium, enough knowledge will be publicly available and fact checked for accuracy, that it will be ‘stable’. It will still end of course but it is unlikely to be replaced at this point in history. Yes there’s an argument to be made for other systems that exist but they will only be able to mirror democracies progress for so long.
Nash actually told us how to get there faster but our society isn’t ready yet. Maybe in ten years or so. Nash’s equation tells us how to find a balance in complex systems, the most effective path basically. We can already tell which laws in democratic countries are the ‘best’ for the people living under those laws. We can pick between two for example. Eventually it will be a simple matter of adopting the best policies globally, using voluntary groups to test out slight variations of the laws to improve them further.
People for the most part aren’t quite there. The level of engagement isn’t there either. There’s also the need to find a more reliable way to influence big business, and remove their influences from the government process. I don’t have an easy fix for those issues.
(None of that takes into account the number of failed democracies that were directly caused by American politics over the last half century and a bit.)
Here’s a breakdown of the court cases and Trumps chances of flipping the vote. There’s a great story about a judge getting a Republican lawyer to answer a question.
If Trump manages to stay in power there are going to be a lot of pissed off people. You can bet on widespread rioting. I’m stocked up on popcorn and toilet paper.
Haven’t watched the video yet. You think there were genuine frauds and other issues or is trump using ‘loopholes’ to take away Biden votes from the board ?
I don’t think Trump can change the results of the election. A Republican is overseeing the PA process. The margin is likely to be outside of free recount range and I don’t think Trump is going to pay for it.
There’s actually no state that looks like it will flip back red at this point and Trump would need all of them.
Even Fox News is reporting that Biden is the President elect, the talking heads for the opinion part of Fox contradicting the news side of Fox, but they’ve called it for Biden too.
Other governments including my own recognizance Biden as the President elect.
Of course it’s going to continue till the election results are certified and the electoral college announcement.
Then if Trump doesn’t start the transition of power he can be sued for putting the national security at risk.
1 Like
It interesting that the recount is not automatic and that there’s an option to enforce it by paying for it. Seems a bit broken.
Basically you’re saying that all mail in fraud and that which concerns access for overseeing the counting is unfounded?
If not unfounded, at least not anything unusual. No system is 100% perfect, buy it’s more of a random error than an intentional one.
1 Like
The number of ballots that are in question are less than what Trump would need to make up. It isn’t that it isn’t worth checking, it’s that check isn’t worth it. Different states all have different laws, personally I like our system better, we all vote the same way, no matter where we are in the country. The system can be recounted in part or total anytime we want and it’s all publicly available information. We still use paper ballots, although machines do the majority of the counting. Everything gets observed.
Hey they’re not my laws, the margins are what determine if it’s free, if the vote is within a certain number than you can request a recount, if it’s 25% of that number it’s free, from what I understand. Back in 2000 it was a close race and so there was an automatic/free recount, one side just had to question the results. That was a different state though.
1 Like
Maybe Trump is trying to make a long leap from minutely fraudulent election to it’s not legitimate and we need a complete due over by having the process monitored at all possible levels, if things don’t swing his way in short term.
I mean, it’s interesting that recount option would be determined by how much money a candidate has. It should be automatic cause this is a gov case and not a civil suit. Would suck if you don’t have the money to challenge but it’s significant. Would sound like a stolen election. There’s already too much money in politics.
There would be signs of wide spread fraud, both sides have had the ability to monitor the vote counting. That’s what the Republican lawyer was pressed on, whether there were observers from the Republican side, he answered “a non zero number.”, to which the judge responded with the equivalent of, answer the question or lose your ability to practice law. The lawyer said “yes.”, the Republican Party itself doesn’t question the election at the commission level.
The people conducting the election, on both sides, think there hasn’t been any wide spread fraud. On the recount matter, it has to have limits set or political parties would demand a unreasonable amount of them, same goes for making them pay if its outside a reasonable limit.
The biggest thing is, these rules were agreed upon at the start of the election and were set by the parties themselves in various states. If there’s a 500 vote difference a recount matters, at 47,000 vote difference it’s pointless. (Georgia is the only state it may matter in and they’re going to automatically have a recount. Difference of less than 2000 votes.)
If the system is so flawed that so many votes could make it through, then neither side can claim it’s secure enough for the results of any contest to matter. If the system identified fraud it would report and investigate it. Recounts only flip a few votes, less than 1250 votes flipped is the largest flip ever.
PS. Every recount in the last 29 years has benefited the Democrats, out of 27 recounts only 3 changed the results, with a median change of less than 250 votes on average. Like I said before it just isn’t enough to make a difference.
1 Like
Also, I had to look that up, I don’t just know everything about your elections, they’re to messed up. So many weird outdated rules.
1 Like
Good assessment. I’m sure Trump’s team knows the situation but they’re either hoping for something else or just trying to earn bonus points for when 2024 rolls around, if trump will be running again.
1 Like
Mostly I think it’s about getting his people to give him money. They’re collecting right now for the court challenges but in the fine print it says they can allocate 40% to paying off campaign debt and 60% to the Republican Party, doesn’t leave much for recounts.
The problem for the Party is that Trump even losing got more votes than any other Republican ever. They can’t see how to unhook their horse from his, without him driving off with the carriage.
The party is split right now, more so than ever before in history. Who do Republican voters follow Trump or the Party.
It going to be interesting in the next few weeks, I expect the story to change a few times before the electoral college meets.
PS. I really don’t think the party wants Trump running again, maybe put out to pasture on Fox or AON.
1 Like
Not just elections. There are a bunch of old laws that only get to see daylight when a specific case comes up and at that time it often seems unsensical with respect to today’s values. I don’t have specific examples, but i heard about it in the news from time to time. Or maybe it was in the simpsons where homer’s punishment was to be catapulted 😂
Agreed. But i think he doesn’t need their approval. He has the people. If his popularity peaks again in 2024, they’ll have no choice cause he’ll destroy the other candidates in the primaries.
1 Like
We have laws like that too, not allow to walk my pig on Young street for some reason, totally legal to ride a horse though.
The election process in the states is bound to get scrutiny from both sides next term. If I was an American, I’d likely be pushing for universal election laws.
I do believe you are right about him destroying the competition in the primaries. Guy inspires a crazy amount of loyalty, I don’t really get why. It’s like a paradox or a cognitive dissonance.
1 Like
Americans don’t seem to be fans of anything universal unless it’s american first 😁. His charm is in supposed honesty . Even when he lies, it seems like he believes in his own lies, or at least believes that it’s for greater good. That’s compared to average corrupt politician. That being said, it is really hard to not be ‘corrupt’ at some level once there’s munny in politics. But nothing can be done about that. Both parties like that and it’s not going to change.
He is a conartist, but different enough from regular politicians that it resonates with the voters.
1 Like
It’s not over yet. Rudy Guilani to the rescue . We will take American back from corporate and foreign power.
Out of 31 lawsuits, 30 of them have been dismissed, withdrawn or lost. The only case Trump won, has nothing to do with the legitimacy of any results.
How anyone can take a man who refers to American elections as ‘the Democrats election machine’ seriously, is beyond me. The things he’s saying during the press conference aren’t the same things he’s saying in court.
2 Likes
