use that
Complains About Prey
Nah. All I’m saying is that stating she’s part of a culture provide no information about Naru as a person. Saying she has Comanche beliefs means she has the same character depth as every other Comanche.
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i see what you mean. I have no love for cultural simplicity either.
but this is a goddamn predator film.
Yeah, but “I am woman, hear me roar” is shorter and provides the same nuance as “Soldier, and a damn good one”. Its more a reflection of the depth of his argument than anything meaningful, like Naru.
nobody every said “I liked the movie because its deep”.
This aint no Chris Nolan flick.
Ill let you know when Chris Nolan directs Dutch: Soldier Begins.
But i actually wanna see that. Really do…XD
To be clear, I’m not saying Dutch is all that deep. He isn’t Boromir. But I am saying there is a lot more nuance in Arnie’s performance to relay a character than is given credit for. I even specifically hampered myself by sticking with the opening scene. I could talk about how despite his loyalty to him men, he’s more of a distant leader than a tight brotherhood. But despite that, he’s willing to sacrifice himself for the group. He’s tactical but not as cunning as he thinks. I can go on, but I felt that opening scenes are too important to overlook and makes a great way to compare while having a limited number of lines and actions to really dig down into each character (or in Naru’s case, start digging and hit bedrock immediately)
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I think i get what you’re saying. Naru’s story could have been more authentic. But it could have been a bit too disturbing for people to see. Granted, nothing is ever out of the question since it was released on Hulu.
But at the end of the day, seeing he do payote or having murderous intent which could have made a more convincing character probably wouldn’t have played out well for a wide audience. Nothing wrong with showing it, I would probably had preferred it. To see the raw nature of their culture could have been better off in a book version.
But if they had Disney all over it and interfering , they would probably had edited and added family friendly shit making her more like Pocahontis.
I can hear those reps now “Can we add like making her like a princess?” then Dan would be like “OK! lets make this a animated film!”
Sorry, you’re a good guy, but I’m here specifically to point out the shallowness of Naru.
While I think a historically accurate Comanche movie would be fucking awesome and actually give proper respect to cultures dying out due to conquest.
I also wouldn’t mind seeing John Wick minus 400 where the french actually do kill her dog and then the french are removed from the continent by her singlehandedly DOOM style. It’d be laughably bad, but I’d see it.
And with your princess comment, I remember that dude who came in here with a picture of Midthunder in a dress and said, “stop arguing, she’s hot” Disney needs to stop. Everything. Just stop everything. Except Andor.
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good point
Now I’m even more on board with doing like histoflick of Native cultures, using living descendants for information.
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with yuatja predators or without? or have you moved on?
Honestly, Without. Just give us a straight historical movie. I’d buy out a whole theater just so it makes money.
Don’t get me wrong, I love Predator, but not everything needs them. And I’m sick of them being dragged around and propped up from time to time to gather money without a thought or care to the franchise. I’m at the point where all my favourite movies need to die and left to what was once good instead of whatever foul necromancy disney, or whoever owns the rights to them now, uses to bring them back to tarnish their legacy one more time.
But you did, and this world-building directly affects the building of a character when the character is directly impacted by what’s happening in the world. No that’s how you interpret her I can safely assume any modern movie where women are like fck you ill do I want I’m grown you’ll say Mary Sue without even knowing what the character trope is. You should look it up
So no seeing a relationship is the same as seeing how they engage. And you see her engage with her family.
There’s quite a bit said about her father, including the fact that she was taught to hunt by him
he’s mentioned often between conversations with her family
Taabe did what? Are you talking about the hunt he successfully killed it She also attempted to hunt something that hunts back bro, that’s actively putting your life on the line for honor and respect.
By magically do you mean narus combat prowess was shown and they fckd shit up in that camp coz yes that happened deal with it
FFS stop hearing shit I don’t say I used the bile as a reference because its a global recognized by most and a cultural phenomenon that yo can see shape people. There are no victims here. What are you talking about are you high?
CULTURE IS NOT STATIC
it is the accumulation of traditions arts, languages, customs, practices, and spiritual beliefs of a people.
Don’t just throw a bible at him,but if we did find out he was religious and how he moves within that religion, it would definitely make him more fleshed out like TF lmao. we actually see in real time how Naru moves within her culture, even if it’s against the collective dos and don’ts of the culture.
Again, this is because you have no understanding of culture
You brought up historical inaccuracy that wasn’t even in the movie as proof of Naru’s depth. I pointed out your flaw and moved on. Its not world building if its A) not in the movie, and B) if its factually wrong. If we can just make shit up to prove our point I’ll have chatgpt write a seventy page backstory for Dutch and automatically win. And I wouldn’t call her a Mary Sue. She has all but one trait of that, however. If more than her brother liked her, then she would be, but since no one but her brother likes, she can’t be. Nice try to deflect again.
No you daft bastard. Having them interact is not the same as knowing they have family. And their interactions were planks at best. How does she feel about her father? Taught to hunt is not character,
Taabe did hunt and kill the lion alone. Unless you mean where she ‘hunted’ the Feral. The hunt where she vanished before its eyes without it noticing, and it ending in a suicide? That hunt? I don’t know about honor, but respect I can agree with, but that again can reductively fall under “I am woman, hear me roar.” And yeah, I mean magically. Because she’s 90lbs soaking wet, couldn’t take on two from her tribe, and then took on more without an issue. That has nothing to do with her character, that bad directing.
You both used ‘colonizer’ to refer to me dismissively as well as assume my religion dismissively just because it suits your narrative. Bigot behaviour.
Culture may not be static over time, but in a snapshot of time, it is very much static. It may have been built up over generations, but looking at atmost a week in time, its static.
We don’t really find out how Naru moves within her religion. We know she believes in the mythology, but she doesn’t practice gendered roles. We don’t really delve any deeper than saying thunderbird and “get back in the kitchen”. This film has the surface dressings of Comanche, only slightly deeper than those old spaghetti westerns. But now at least I’ve got you to move from ‘Culture makes her deep’ to ‘how she moves within her culture shows character’. I’m glad you’re learning.
what i brought up was what was shown in the film, you made it about inaccuracies to try to invalidate it.
its not made up we know the colonizers are colonizing during this time, they’re killing natives because its mentioned they also wanted to kidnap her, like did you watch the film.
so can tell me what you learned about dutch from the pred one besides HE HAD MORAL FIBRE
anyway, yes, she’s not a Mary Sue a Mary Sue would be the depiction of something like the perfect housewife. Yet you guys point out so many flaws in who she is as a person but still call her one-dimensional its weird.
Then you’re using words wrong again, what you’re trying to say is knowing of is not the same as knowing. Why do you guys keep using the word character in a different sense from fleshing out a character and talk like we are discussing their moral fibre.
it was done to gain the respect and honor of a seasoned hunter
if you want to reduce to that, sure was that plot horrible? Yes, did it also make Feral look like an idiot for falling for a Looney Toons trap, also doesn’t change the fact she hunted and killed it
sure she took one down and got jumped by two, she wasn’t willing to kill. Would you prefer her to throw axes into the faces of her tribesmen just because they were dick heads
again your argueing how yog like the other film more I’m nor arging this i don’t care
“YOUR TO COLONIZED” is what I’ve been saying anyway
So you’re saying because culture takes time to change it doesn’t influence people in their beliefs and practices, this is stupid, and why I used the bible as an example.
Religion is only one aspect of their culture, we know that she believes pred to be this creature and still hunts it, so we know they are spiritual and acted in the face of spiritual dread.
So you might not know this, but gender roles are very culturally specific; they are not the same from culture to culture, right And from the conversations with her family and other tribe members, they are traditionalists, and you learn about her as a character as she moves through these conversations and practices
Now you’re back to arguing the moral fibre of Naru
I’m sorry, what the fuck? You brought up Comanche wars as to why Naru disdains the french, and I point out that that’s not in the movie and Naru is confused as to what white people are. She can’t have disdain for something she has no clue exists yet. So the only disdain she could have is from the french doing what they did in the film, and if you think you can call ‘having disdain for someone who kidnapped you’ a character trait and ignore what I said about Dutch, Fuck you.
And as I said before which you keep forgetting, I was giving you a chance by only using the opening scenes. Since you couldn’t even muster up a single character trait from Naru’s you have no ground to stand on there.
And what the fuck do you think a Mary Sue is? Its a woman who’s perfect at everything, has no flaws and everyone likes her. Get out of here with your housewife bullshit.
You previously stated that having a family was fleshing out a character. Now you’re here using words again poorly. I’m not discussing their moral fibre, I’m commenting on the fact that Naru is so shallow, I don’t know if she has morals.
And I’ll wrap that into “I’m a woman, hear me roar”
Fine, if you call suicide her hunting and killing it, then she did, but that doesn’t give us her character. ANd why shouldn’t she kill her tribesmen? There is nothing about her that indicates she wouldn’t.
Oh fuck off you bigot.
I’m not saying it doesn’t influence people. Okay, let me try it this way. Culture doesn’t make you a character, it makes you a caricature. Naru isn’t a character, she is a caricature of a Comanche. Using your knee jerk bigoted reaction of the bible, Take really any Stephen King movie. That asshole biblethumper isn’t a character, he is a caricature.
Naru hasn’t shown any moral fibre on purpose. If I had to guess based on the movie, I’d say she’s a sociopath based on how little she cares for the deaths of her family. I doubt that’s DT’s intention, but thats what we got.
her and her tribe know of the fur traders did you what the film how can yo have a translator for her without interaction with her ppl TF.
All you’ve said aoubt Dutch is he has a lot of experience as a soldier and has morals, that’s it.
What you’re doing is creating a fallacy where we can only use a specific portion of the film instead of the entire film to try and win an arguemet.
if she were a Mary Sue you would love her. Like DUDE the last in reply, you even say if she was a Mary Sue the tribe would love her, but they hate her. even you understand she’s not a Mary Sue but say it because its just the rhetorical structure of arguments you’re used to
Knowing about a character’s family is knowing a portion of who that character is, knowing what their relationships are like adds to it further. Its not the entire reason they are fleshed out it’s one of the many reasons they are fleshed out. Including culture, traditions, practices, spirituality and how she moves through it. Did you actually pick up that she’s the tribes healer with skills in hunting, “Best shot in the village”.
Would you say the same about Scar? he and his hunting companions all died in the hunt?
Yes, it does. Culture shapes your beliefs, values, general roles in society, how you typpially move in it etc and no a caricature is a hyperbole of a characteristic. Why are you so triggered about the bible are you playing the victim ard again for no reason.
you wouldn’t be able to make this claim if her character wasn’t fleshed out. You hate her I get it I don’t care. You’ve pointed out alot of negative traits in her even though shes one dimensional
Because A) there are more comanche than a single tribe of thirty. B) I don’t think DT thought about that.
I’ve said more than that, but you just choose to ignore it. FUck off.
That’s not a fallacy. The opening scene of a character needs to drip with that character, especially the protagonist. By limiting it to the MOST IMPORTANT SCENE FOR CHARACTER, we can comb over every sentence and look in the movies and pull out details. And even though I haven’t used the rest of Predator, I’ve still shown that Dutch has more depth than Naru in the entirety of Prey.
Okay, once again you moron, I gave the definition for Mary Sue, said she wasn’t solely because no one likes her and that she has the rest of the traits. You gave some new definition no one ever heard of. I responded with how dumb you and your definition are. You come back with saying I said she’s a Mary Sue. You fucking donkey.
Again, stop flopping about. Knowing her family does nothing. Knowing what their relationships are like does. Stop brining up culture and traditions. Its how she moves through them, not the fact that they exist. And all it tells us is that she’s Camanche. No depth there. I picked up that she worked under her mother, the tribe’s healer, and somehow no one knew that. ANd I hope they didn’t call the person who almost hit a deer, and only caught rabbits once she could recall her tomahawk after every miss “best shot in the village”
Those three didn’t shoot themself in the face. They lost.
FUck off bigot. Culture doesn’t differentiate you from anyone else with that culture. Its a net neutral for discussing character development. Culture makes Naru no different that the woman you see carrying a baby as she walks to gather crops. Just relying on the culture to carry forth your character is a caricature. It suffered no nuance. I’m annoyed that you assume anything about me. You use the bible as a hateful counter example like its supposed to get to me. All it does is show I’m talking to a bigot. And I hate bigots.
I’ve pointed out a lot of nontraits because she’s one dimensional. Everything you’ve said about can be summed up in two phrases. “Comanche” and “Woman who’s better than men” There is no depth to her that can’t be summed up right there.
its a false dilemma fallacy your using because you probably realise that beginning uutsee is all you got
Then do it use the rest of the film don’t threaten me with a good time just do it.
You called her a mary sue long before that That definition I gave you is THE definition not “my” definition.
You see her navigating the culture and traditions in real time a character this gives you more than they’re a Comanche tribe member. but even fleshing out the details of a culture without having a character navigate it is still more than they did with dutch
so do you think the rope was magic or do you think that once enough character and world-building was done they were able to move the story along and allow the character to be what was said about how well they could shoot.
YOU’RE WATCHING HER IN REAL TIME NAVIGATE THAT CULTURE its beliefs its traditions, its practices, and the fact you still think culture doesn’t have influence on beliefs and practices as an individual still shows your ignorance.
It’s not implied anywhere that she’s “better than men”, that’s a you thing, and they’re not just “another comanche member” because you see them going against the grain in real time
That’s not a false dilemma fallacy.
THE MOST IMPORTANT SCENE FOR THE CHARACTER
I never called her a Mary Sue. I said she almost was. You can go hunt down and prove you brought up Mary Sue, not I.
Again, I’m not debating their poor showing of a native culture. I’m debating Naru.
Using real world logic, yeah the rope is magic. That ruins the ability to throw the tomahawk. Using the movie rules, it does show she’s smarter than your average man. But to be clear, the rope allows her to keep missing until she hits her target. Its doesn’t make her more accurate, it just makes her able to throw more often until she hits.
Fuck off bigot. I’m watching her in real time fail to show a facial expression. SHe does so little with her culture that the fact that its there does not inform me about her. Its used as set dressing to attract fuckwads like you.
The only way she’s going against the comanche is by wanting to do male things. And its implied all over the movie. She’s the best tracker, she knows medicine is a thing, she never loses to a man in a fair fight, and even when the fights get unfair against her, she only loses once to men. The only thing she’s shown to be worse at is hunting, but the movie keeps telling you she’s actually super good if you give her a chance. From now on I’m just going to sum up your points with “Comanche” when its solely about that and not Naru, and “Woman” when the movies does its ‘i am woman hear me roar’ moments. It’ll save us all time.