Dead by daylight update

[Eshtion]

@Fire

The pallet thing is a mechanic.
You can label it as something else but it’s not.

Your critisim was of the thematic visualization of the pallet, not the mechanic of an active path blocker for survivors.

@Fire

Like how you said that I’m only saying that it’s bad, not how bad it is. I literally mentioned multiple reasons why these things are a problem.

Not when I pointed them out.

Yes you have made argument but not every time.

When I say you didn’t make an argument I’m being specific to what I’m responding too.

@Fire

For example. Ghost face doesn’t actually have any powers. So he should be one of the killers you can actually kill and fight.

Right there one small change, creates varied gameplay.

A. That’s not a small change. How would that even work

B. That doesn’t mesh with the lore because the literal God empowers his killers. And that’s before his release.

@Fire

Oh and btw, if it was actual torture, your wounds, resources, ect. Would carry over from match to match.
You wouldnt start fresh each round.

What? Why?

While I believe games are best when mechanics and thematics are meshed DBD isn’t and the argument that the mechanics and thematics aren’t meshed doesn’t mean the thematics doesn’t exist unless you want to say you can canonically survive an arrow to the head in predator.

Not to mention even if the lore and mechanics were meshed there’s reason why this wouldn’t be the case as your either completely restored and you have imbetween matches to patch up.

Besides the torture of DBD is false hope so giving them boons would push that goal.

@Fire

And yeah, I have been backing up my points.
You simply dont like what I’m saying or how I’m wording it. Sorry cupcake, I did. That you dont understand it or choose to ignore it is on you.

@Fire

That’s so not true.
Slow hits, or rather, long pause between attacks is horrible design depending on the game.
And in the case of DbD, its horrible.

@Fire

That’s so not true.

Claim: it’s false

@Fire

Slow hits, or rather, long pause between attacks is horrible design depending on the game.

Claim: slow hits can be bad

@Fire

And in the case of DbD, its horrible.

Claim: it’s badly handled in DBD

These are literally without arguments.

This is your entire message, without supporting arguments

@Fire

A shitty atmosphere.
Looks theres games that are purposely made in pixel style that have actual horror atmosphere.

DbD doesn’t.

That’s not micro management.
That’s a gotta small things to keep in mind, but those are basic things found in many games.
But this is more is using the term differently.

You say micro management I think of taking care of resources, managing bases, diplomacy, ect.

Sorry esh, just like this game, there are no true builds in DbD.

As for why ppl like it, well that’s people just enjoying a bad game.

@Fire

A shitty atmosphere.

Claim: bad atmosphere

@Fire

Looks theres games that are purposely made in pixel style that have actual horror atmosphere.

I actually did forget to acknowledge this one my bad

@Fire

That’s not micro management.

Something I already acknowledged as a point

Oh also

@Fire

You simply dont like how I’m wording it.

@Fire

Sorry esh, just like this game, there are no true builds in DbD.

Claim: no builds in DBD. You say there isn’t without argument.

You have made a large number of claims with few arguments. Yes I’ll take credit for my mistake I mentioned but that doesn’t absolve you.

@Fire

And if dbd was designed well, I would be doing a lot of mind games and making it out to feel like a horror movie, not just killing everyone quickly.

A. But it’s not a horror movie. It’s an asym game. It is it’s own thing, even as a tribute. Why should it try to emulate something it’s not?

B. Jumpscare builds.

C. This focuses on the thematics of the game rather than the mechanics. It’s not the path to victory, it’s the experience. A simulator. Multiplayer games are not good simulators.

@Fire

You can classify it as trolling but it’s not. Its literally playing the role of a demon or serial killer.

But going by what you’re saying its ok for the survivors to troll the killer, but god forbid the killer can.

Your ft is showing.

I never said survivors could troll the killer. How did you get this?

I mentioned body blocking but that’s a tool for the survivors, much like tunneling.

And ya being overpowered for the killers sake and not the survivors is a game about trolling people.

@Fire

How the fuck would possession be an awful mechanic?
Being able to posses objects and throw them, or pop a light bulb and cut them with the shards.

You say possesion I think k human possession.

I’ll admit the miscommunication (though I won’t take blame)

@Fire

Freeze traps, explosives, stun, poison

A. Trapper literally is, the stun trapper. That’s literally his thing mechanically and thematically.

B. Plague can literally infect objects turning them into poison traps.

C. These are all the same shades of trapper done slightly different. I’m not opposed to it but it’s hardly nessacary.

@Fire

The guarding the hook is something that the devs seem to discourage. It’s just stupid.

If you face camp the survivor literally doesn’t get to play the game

How do you defend that mechanically?

@Fire

I’m basing that from the fact that tournaments dont allow that.

That is stupid

@Fire

It’s the fact that it’s too easy to escape that’s the problem.

Yes balance is shit. Which they’re working on nerfing survivors hence the update.

@Fire

Tell me, what’s fun about nurse having an asthma attack after her ability?

What’s fun about reloading a weapon or attacks that make you go negative. It’s balance.

@Fire

The times between attacks are the issue.
As well as abilities.

No it’s not, it’s pressure. That’s why ruin was way more popular than the attack reduction perk.

@Fire

Give the survivors a dodge, or anything. Where you can avoid one or two hits if you’re good at timing.

It’s called dead hard and it’s the most used ability in the game when I played to the point you just assumed everyone had it.

And I don’t see how a dodge that can make you lose more time on a whiff than any animation us a fair trade off for removing attack animations.

@Fire

You still havent really explained why these things are good, only why they are.

@Fire

You simply dont like what I’m saying or how I’m wording it. Sorry cupcake, I did. That you dont understand it or choose to ignore it is on you.

@Fire

Well considering theres no clever or challenging puzzles, not having any combat makes the experience pointless. Unless you like to troll.

Stealth games don’t exist by this logic and evasion isn’t gameplay.

@Fire

If nothing more, it doesn’t capture the horror genre well at all.

It’s a multi-player game

@Fire

Darkness.
Theres no real darkness in the game where the humans can barely see. Making it hard to navigate and avoid things.

Different people are scared of different things. Not everyone is scared of the dark. Hell darkness is just the extension of fear of the unknown, which doesn’t work in multiplayer games since they revolve around fully knowing the mechanics.

@Fire

It failing on such a simple horror thing, proves that it doesnt live up to the horror genre

But why does it have to be a success as a horror game that scares you?

Every product is it’s own thing. Just because it fails at one aspect doesn’t mean the other aspects aren’t good.

By your logic if dark souls was branded as horror, it’d be bad dispite it’s amazing world and enemy design.

[Fire]

Lmao I missed our back and forths.
No my criticism is about the mechanic. There really shouldn’t be anything that blocks a path so easily.

It would work pretty easily. Some more human killers that are played for a challange, others to have fun.
Btw in none of my scenarios are the survivors guaranteed to lose.

It can match the lore.
I don’t feel like making a story reason why right now.

So they’re essentially in hell?
God the repetition sounds boring as hell.

Because it shouldnt take you 5 seconds to attack again.
Logically it makes no sense, there is no reason to, it’s a bullshit excuse to prolong shit.

Its dragging a kill out. It’s a gimmick. Gimmicks arent good. Let the survivors get dodges or something else to make attacking as the killer be more rewarding.

If it was a decomposing body, or a broken down robot it would make sense. Otherwise it’s too easy for the survivors, and its not fun for the killer.

Like I’ve explained why it’s bad.
You literally want a magical explanation or for me to word it different. I can not explain it any better.

So far your only argument is that you enjoy it so it’s good. I’m saying it’s bad because it strays from what makes being a demon or serial killer a fun interactive experience.

If that’s the only way they can create balance then the system needs a rework to be a better experience for both sides.

The atmosphere is bad because it doesnt fit horror.
Theres no death traps. No monsters or creatures chasing that are actually scary, you can see plenty, so one of the most basic vital things in the horror genre being darkness isnt even there, theres no true suspense, the list goes on.

I’ve said this already, and explained it, but you just dont like the explanation I give even tho I’m using examples.
Such as talking about pixel horror games and hos they actually capture the horror atmosphere.

I literally told you, look at diablo 2.
My god it’s you ignoring what I’m saying.
In diablo 2, if you build hydra, orb sorceress, you go off ice and fire magic.

If you do chain lighting, you work of electricity. The attacks have different effects because its elements.
Feeling completely different, not just minor changes.

That’s true build variety.

Its based off horror. And it doesn’t capture the feeling.
It doesnt matter if its not a movie.
Outlast captured horror perfectly.
I just gave an example, dont ignore it

The dropping pallets, looping, ect, it’s all trolling.

No human possession as well.
Oh but god forbid cause the killer shouldnt be able to feel powerful.
You know they can balance it by giving it a certain duration and cool down right?

Man are you that scared of good powers?

I played a character that had traps.
It was extremely underwhelming.
And that’s another issue.
Killers abilities do not feel impactful.

A minor effect is not good design.
Its lazy.

Abilities should feel worth it.
Theres too many drawbacks to killers.

So the survivor experience is the only one that matters.
As a demon you’re supposed to let them run free?

Logically that doesnt make any sense.
Even if it’s a twisted being, they wouldnt let their prey off so easily.

If you manage to hook them you should be able to defend your catch.

I wouldnt say its entirely the balance tho. It’s just the design over all. Gameplay design that is.

I’ve explained why, please dont ignore it.
I don’t mind resetting.
It just shouldn’t be extremely detrimental.
Theres no reason your movement speed should slow down after a hit. If it was slower movement or cleaning a weapon, it wouldnt be so bad. You get punished for landing an attack.

Sorry you’re wrong on that one.
In order to be effective you can not ne hindered so much after an attack.

Theres many games that give lower level weapons and skills longer cooldowns to show that, hey this is just low level stuff.

But if you get the better version, you’ll see the more effective version. And usually its faster cooldowns or faster attack rate. This is common game things esh, if you really want I can point out some examples.

Because a skilled Dodger can draw aggro.
Its basically tanking but with dodges.

If you dont understand that, I’m referring to the tank roles in MMO’s

Uh evasion is a huge part of many games.
DMC, KINGDOM HEARTS, MGS, HOLLOW KNIGHT,
come on esh.

Just because its multiplayer is no excuse.
The reason being that its horror themed.

What better way to add fear than for players needing to traverse through a low visibility area not knowing if theres a trap or their being watched?

The not knowing, fear of the unknown, will work on everyone to some extent. If anything it creates perfect opportunities to strike.
Then it would be bad at horror but good at everything else.

But dark souls is good.
However, dont forget, I have said multiple times, DbD is a good party game to play with friends. Not to play seriously with randoms tho.

So despite all my issues with it, I can still point out what good about it.

Unfortunately it doesnt have much.

Look, let’s go with one change.
Instead of doing generators, you have to collect artifacts, and solve puzzles, to either seal the demon away, or open up a portal to escape.

Like that actually sounds fun.

I have more to this idea, but at the very least you gotta agree that the survivor side is mind numbing.
Unless your distracting the killer.

I do enjoy our discussions, but you’ve been ignoring a lot of what I’ve said.
If it seems like I’m doing it to you I promise I’m not, im responding with examples from different games that are designed well.

[Madisyn_Skye]

Hey guys, look at this really cool looking game where you can play as a cat.

[MassImpact124]

[Eshtion]

@Fire

No my criticism is about the mechanic. There really shouldn’t be anything that blocks a path so easily.

@Fire

Oh and a pallet of all things stops you?

You make no mechanical argument. This comment insinuates that it’s the fact it’s a a pallet that’s the issue, and not the actual ability to stop you, hence if it was say an iron door it’d be fine.

@Fire

It would work pretty easily.

Go on

@Fire

Some more human killers that are played for a challange,

Survivors escape too easy

Let’s make it easier for survivors to escape

Besides this effectively fucks over comp players by making certain killers unplayable.

@Fire

Because it shouldnt take you 5 seconds to attack again.
Logically it makes no sense, there is no reason to, it’s a bullshit excuse to prolong shit.

It’s a neutral reset

Again your complaint is that the thematic visualization is bad instead of the mechanic.

“It doesn’t make sense why the killer would let his victim get ahead of him”

This is about the character dressing and their motive

Let’s get something straight. When you have a game where mechanics and thematics don’t mesh, mechanics come first.

So the whole “it doesn’t make sense” doesn’t matter because the gameplay comes first.

And if your not complaining about visuals, then your either mixing up visuals with gameplay and don’t understand or you have very bad language. And that’s bot being a Grammer nazi. That’s you literally saying something other than what you intend to say.

Your complaining about thematics

Not the mechanics

@Fire

Its dragging a kill out. It’s a gimmick

It’s a neutral reset. Fighting games have atta KS that go negative all the time.

@Fire

Let the survivors get dodges or something else to make attacking as the killer be more rewarding.

How does a dodge act as a neutral reset?

Also way to go to make the survivors broken when they’re already too strong

@Fire

If it was a decomposing body, or a broken down robot it would make sense

As the killer?

@Fire

Like I’ve explained why it’s bad.

And I countered those arguments.

Your not in a better position than I am.

@Fire

So far your only argument is that you enjoy it so it’s good

Jesus fucking christ

A.

@Fire

I have been backing up my points.
You simply dont like what I’m saying or how I’m wording it. Sorry cupcake, I did. That you dont understand it or choose to ignore it is on you.

B.

@Eshtion

What’s fun about reloading a weapon or attacks that make you go negative. It’s balance.

@Fire

I’m saying it’s bad because it strays from what makes being a demon or serial killer a fun interactive experience

I’m countering those arguments. You know what counter arguments are right?

@Fire

Theres no death traps. No monsters or creatures chasing that are actually scary, you can see plenty, so one of the most basic vital things in the horror genre being darkness isnt even there, theres no true suspense, the list goes on

A. Pig has death traps. Literally jigsaw

B. It’s a multi-player game of course it’s not scary. Multiplayer games are based on repetition, which breeds familiarity, which defeats any horror of any kind. Not to mention how the fuck do you make Ghostface T-bagging scary

C. I already explained this but I guess I get use your own words against you again, darkness is only one phobia, not the only phobia

@Fire

Such as talking about pixel horror games and hos they actually capture the horror atmosphere.

And I countered that

Just because one game did it well doesn’t mean other games with different approaches did it badly.

@Fire

I literally told you, look at diablo 2.

Same as before, another game being doesn’t make another bad

@Fire

My god it’s you ignoring what I’m saying.

@Eshtion

Houdini build
Healer build
Killers Stalker
Spirits pallet breaker+quick pallet recovery perks
And that’s not counting the perk synergy with killers powers and add ons

I literally made a counter arguments listing builds that are based off of perk synergy

And this includes you Fiablo comment

@Fire

Its based off horror. And it doesn’t capture the feeling.
It doesnt matter if its not a movie.
Outlast captured horror perfectly.
I just gave an example, dont ignore it

Outlast isn’t a good example because they’re completely different games. Outlast is actually proper horror

DBD is a multipleplayer game that’s a tribute to horror.

@Fire

The dropping pallets, looping, ect, it’s all trolling.

That’s the fucking gameplay. That’s literally the survivor denying you a hit.

How the hell is denying you a hit trolling but camping a survivor so they literally can’t play the game isn’t trolling?

@Fire

No human possession as well.
Oh but god forbid cause the killer shouldnt be able to feel powerful.
You know they can balance it by giving it a certain duration and cool down right?

Human possession is either

A. Going to be a camouflage ability (not literal) that’s ruined with SWF

B. Be a buff to the killer but lasts too long and makes the survivor not play the game

C. Be a buff But doesn’t last long enough that it doesn’t help the killer enough

@Fire

Man are you that scared of good powers?

Play Freddy. His teleport is good enough let alone his blood traps.

@Fire

I played a character that had traps.
It was extremely underwhelming.
And that’s another issue.
Killers abilities do not feel impactful.

There’s literally a top tier play who specializes in trapper. He has a high skill ceiling tied in with map knowledge

Do you know about the killer shack spot?

@Fire

A minor effect is not good design.

Skill issue. Killer abilities are literally game changers at base let alone with add ons and certain perks.

Huntress players will earn most hits with Hatchett

Freddy players will constantly use teleports

Trapper players will hid their traps well

Killer abilities make massive differences.

@Fire

So the survivor experience is the only one that matters.
As a demon you’re supposed to let them run free?

Ya your completely over blowing the balance of the game.

Besides I already said they’re working on the balance

@Fire

I just gave an example, dont ignore it

@Fire

If you manage to hook them you should be able to defend your catch.

@Fire

So the killer experience is the only one that matters.
As a survivor you’re supposed to do nothing?

@Fire

It just shouldn’t be extremely detrimental.
Theres no reason your movement speed should slow down after a hit. If it was slower movement or cleaning a weapon, it wouldnt be so bad. You get punished for landing an attack.

You shouldn’t slow down, if it was just slowing down it wouldn’t be so bad

This is literally contradicting.

The only thing I can think of is that ability to swing while being slowed down but that’s just null considering you wouldnt be able to hit anything anyways.

@Fire

Logically that doesnt make any sense.
Even if it’s a twisted being, they wouldnt let their prey off so easily.

A. Gameplay over logic

B. False hope is important

@Fire

In order to be effective you can not ne hindered so much after an attack.

Fighting games be dead

I have a question. You down a player as killer, and see another survivor in front of you not far. What do you do?

@Fire

Theres many games that give lower level weapons and skills longer cooldowns to show that, hey this is just low level stuff.

If having it is bad, then that’s a bullshit example since having to slog through bad gameplay would be bad design.

@Fire

And usually its faster cooldowns or faster attack rate. This is common game things esh

There’s literally a perk that decreases swing animation time. This is also a thing in DBD.

Besides nothing wrong with certain elements staying the same. Your movement speed doesn’t increase in dark souls and that’s not a flaw.

@Fire

Because a skilled Dodger can draw aggro.
Its basically tanking but with dodges.

A. How does this not break the game

B. How does this very one sided buff that can add minutes to a chase remove the need to be slowed down for a couple of seconds?

What your suggesting is a much bigger thing then you realize

We already had a dodge that gave you exhaustion and you had to be injured for it to work. And it was still the most used ability that was commonly the difference between games chase lengths.

@Fire

Uh evasion is a huge part of many games.
DMC, KINGDOM HEARTS, MGS, HOLLOW KNIGHT,
come on esh.

You do realize I was mocking you right?

DBD is a game of evasion through both stealth and chases.

@Fire

Just because its multiplayer is no excuse.
The reason being that its horror themed.

Horror themed not horror

@Fire

traverse through a low visibility area not knowing if theres a trap or their being watched?

Imagine hitting a trap you couldn’t possibly know was there. Besides this is already a thing with certain trapper spots.

Also stealth killers exist. The being watched part already exists (not to mention the terror radius.

@Fire

I can still point out what good about it.

The community is the most toxic entitled group I’ve ever seen. They’re probable down there with political groups.

So I’ll throw some crap too.

@Fire

you have to collect artifacts,

Dude I hate looking for shit on a good day.

@Fire

and solve puzzles

What puzzles though?

The gens is the weakest part of the game admittedly but it still needs an inherent improvement.

@Fire

or open up a portal to escape.

Why does it have to be mystic? Stick with the door.

@Fire

I have more to this idea, but at the very least you gotta agree that the survivor side is mind numbing.
Unless your distracting the killer.

I wouldn’t say mind numbing, it’s not that extreme but yes it is flawed.

@Fire

but you’ve been ignoring a lot of what I’ve said.

This goes your way so fucking hard. This conversation is in no way one sided.

@Fire

If it seems like I’m doing it to you I promise I’m not

And I promise you that I’m not. We’re in the exact same boat.

@Madisyn_Skye

Hey guys, look at this really cool looking game where you can play as a cat.

Fuck off wench

DEUS VULT INFIDEL

[Madisyn_Skye]

I scrolled through all of that to get to my tag. Thanks.

[Eshtion]

THE LORDS WORK IS DONE

[Finessology]

@Fire

I guess you like playing tag.

This thread in summary.

[Eshtion]

[Renegade]

Dbd isnt perfect but it does help you blow off some steam. I find the game therapeutic with a slight jab of fun. XD

[GixxerJax]

I’ve played a little of DBD few years ago and just came back to it now, but I haven’t fully worked out how the blood web works when you hit lvl 50 on your character, for example can someone tell me will I still get new perks on the bloodweb at lvl 50 if I keep refreshing it, or do I have to prestige and start from lvl 1 again to access new perks for my killer?

I’ve just noticed when I refresh my lvl 50 bloodweb, the same bloodweb items/perks come up, and there’s a few perks I’ve been waiting to see but haven’t shown up yet. Hope that made sense.

TIA

[Eshtion]

You can still get new perks on 50+ bloodwebs

The catch is you have to unlock the perks. So you have to have leveled up other killers in order get their specific perks.

[GixxerJax]

That explains it! Thanks

[Fire]

If anyone can enjoy that game outside of a group of friends go for it, but it’s not designed well.

[Fire]

Dude you’re trying to turn this into a competition lmao.
I’ve already stated facts, as to why the game is badly designed.

You’re trying so hard to make your opinions be fact by twisting labels and language.

If that’s how you’re gonna do it I cant keep it going because theres no point.

I skimmed through what you said, but since most of it is just you trying to say “nu uh its this, nu uh nu uh nu uh” I literally cant take you seriously.

Like to make this simpler I’m going to focus on one thing to show were you’re the one trying to twist everything up via wordplay and your own definitions.
Actually 2 things.

Dropping the pallet to block the player is a bad mechanic. Yes, it’s bad visually, but it’s purely just a bad mechanic because ITS TOO SIMPLE. it would only be a good mechanic if you had to actually set it such as iron bars or door, or a spell. That would require you setting up via a code or an incantation. It’s the fact that it’s too easy to do which makes it a bad mechanic.

Second

you’re saying not let a survivor play is trolling and this is bad. That’s just fucking stupid from logic and gameplay point of view. Essentially when you get caught on a hook, you’re a prisoner. A PRISONER ISNT ALLOWED TO EASILY ESCAPE OR ESCAPE AT ALL UNLESS A LOT OF PREP HAPPENS AND A LOT OF TIME THEY NEED OUTSIDE HELP. or inside if you could bribe the guards. So fuck you, and fuck the person that got caught. If you get caught, then too fucking bad. Unless your friends help you, then you should just die.

You keep throwing the arguement of balance and that it’s a game. That doesnt matter. Because if designed well it will be balanced and fun.
Like everything I’ve mentioned can work for gameplay mechanics and make the game way more fun and enjoyable to way more people.

You just want shit to be too simple and easy.
I’m guessing you never beat a souls game huh? Lol

One final note. If its horror themed, it needs to live up to it unless it’s a pure combat pvp game.

No, multiplayer doesnt need to be repetivive.
I’ve been focusing on the killer so far, but theres things that they can add for the survivors as well.

Let’s do it like this. Focus one thing, or two at a time.
Should be easier.

[Eshtion]

@Fire

nu uh its this, nu uh nu uh nu uh

It’s almost Like that’s how counter arguments work.

@Fire

be fact by twisting labels and language.

No I’m not either

A. Your not being clear enough in your argument or

B.

@Fire

You simply dont like what I’m saying or how I’m wording it. Sorry cupcake, I did. That you dont understand it or choose to ignore it is on you.

@Fire

Dropping the pallet to block the player is a bad mechanic. Yes, it’s bad visually, but it’s purely just a bad mechanic because ITS TOO SIMPLE. it would only be a good mechanic if you had to actually set it such as iron bars or door, or a spell. That would require you setting up via a code or an incantation. It’s the fact that it’s too easy to do which makes it a bad mechanic.

A. Being simple is not bad

Dark souls is simple

B. This completely drops the aspect of looping a killer and the counter play of mind games at loops from basic 50/50’s at high wall loops, all the way to killer specific mind games such as trapper and Huntress

There’s a lot of people who don’t know how to effectively loop because it isn’t brain dead like it may seem.

C. On your suggestion the survivor who would begin being chased by the killer in the begining of the match would have no defenses. Your actively removing engagement by making this change.

D. How does setting it up add any complexity? Dropping a pallet is too simple but setting one up? That’s top tier gameplay.

E. Why are we changing the thematics? What difference does it make if it’s iron bars or a pallet? Or a door which is just a bigger pallet on hinges (not to mention it completely fucks the pre-established thematics)

@Fire

you’re saying not let a survivor play is trolling and this is bad. That’s just fucking stupid from logic and gameplay point of view. Essentially when you get caught on a hook, you’re a prisoner. A PRISONER ISNT ALLOWED TO EASILY ESCAPE OR ESCAPE AT ALL UNLESS A LOT OF PREP HAPPENS AND A LOT OF TIME THEY NEED OUTSIDE HELP. or inside if you could bribe the guards. So fuck you, and fuck the person that got caught. If you get caught, then too fucking bad. Unless your friends help you, then you should just die.

A.

@Fire

Unless your friends help you, then you should just die.

That’s how it works already. There’s two exceptions which both suck in terms of meta.

B. It’s still shitty gameplay. Seriously your complaining about a 3 second animation on a successful hit on a killer but a two minute waiting period for survivor is fine? Come on dude. Hell people complain about turret sections in games but at least in those you get to shoot shoot with a powerful gun. But sitting still with no gameplay at all is fine?

C. The “your a prisoner” argument doesn’t support gameplay mechanics, nor does it support the unique thematics of DBD.

@Fire

You keep throwing the arguement of balance and that it’s a game. That doesnt matter. Because if designed well it will be balanced and fun.

Not true at fucking all

Some of the most fun games are unbalanced pieces of shit like dark souls and Kingdom hearts which are both player sided in the amount of busted ways you can destroy bosses.

Balance and fun are not the same and yes balance is important

@Fire

Like everything I’ve mentioned can work for gameplay mechanics and make the game way more fun and enjoyable to way more people.

@Fire

way more fun and enjoyable to way more people.

One of your defenses of camping the hook is fuck you

Fuck you

I don’t care if it’s not fun, fuck you

Oh but your suggestions are fun?

Your suggestions are either

A. In the game in some form (dodges)

B. Minimal (oh the frost trap is so different to trapper that it makes the gameplay Completely fresh)

C. Reduces player engagement. As bad as the gens are at least players engage with them. As simple as pallets are at least there’s engagement.

But with sitting on a hook for 2 minutes, getting mori’d after your first down, both of those things reduce the engagement of the game which is the entire point of the game.

No one plays prisoner for fun.

@Fire

You just want shit to be too simple and easy.

Sitting on a hook for two minutes isn’t simple?

Fire, no offense, but you ideas are complete crap that cater to an experience where the killer butchers the survivors who have no way to interact with the game.

Your ideas in general cater to the single unit, PHG or DBD so that they have a power fantasy while the many are stuck with uninteractive gameplay.

And the few times you have brought up something that doesn’t support that viewpoint, are already in the game, you just don’t realize it and ignore it when I say it.

Everything you’ve accused me of doing, ignoring arguments, being biased, is something you’ve been doing.

[Fire]

Theres no reasoning with you.
I literally cant make things any clearer.

Its about making it fun and fair for the solo faction.
DbD has the issue where its supposed to be horror but its not, and some horrible designs.

But that game doesn’t really matter. Only reason I’m talking about it is because I’m showing you all the flaws with it, but you’re still doing nothing but uh uh, nu uh.
And no that’s not how counter arguements work, cause in case you cant tell, what I’m saying is you’re counters are all weak and dont in any way counter or negate what I’m saying.

I’ve bought up facts, meanwhile you keep trying to break then down to what you think is good.
Doesnt matter, I’m only giving ideas to improve the game and have it live up to what it’s based off.
Horror.

Like a prime example you keep arguing the pallet thing.
Logically dropping a fucking a pallet of all things on a demon, to stop it, in many ways is just fucking stupid.

First off, a demon wouldnt just be able to crush it’s way through?
That’s downplaying the killer.
You can claim its balance, but if that’s the best they can come up with, it’s just lazy design.

I literally cant explain it any better than I have.
I can think of plenty of people who I can have this conversation with and would understand what I’m saying and why it’s a problem.

Like I dont think you understand that you literally are only defending it because you like it, not because it’s good design.

The pallet blocking a killer that isnt a human or weak is the same as an invisible wall or ledge you cant climb in a game. Sure it serves a purpose but it’s still lazy.

Second- simple isnt good if it doesnt make sense.
Look if its ghost face, or even leather face, then it makes sense. But someone who’s a fkn demon or known to have super strength?

Well I guess fuck that character right?

Only scrubs complain about turret sections.
So that argument is invalid.
A turret is easy to get past as long as you’re not stupid or impatient.

Your c. Point about being a prisoner is completely irrelevant and reaching.

IF YOU GET CAUGHT YOU’RE A FUCKING PRISONER.
like this is just common fucking sense.
And considering the lore of the game, ITS ALL ONE PRISON ANYWAY.

I cant believe how you’re not understanding this.

Killer catches you.
You are now its prisoner.
You can change the wording but still the same shit.
It locks you on a hook.
Pretty much being held hostage.
None the less, YOU ARE ITS PRISONER WHERE IT TRAPPED YOU.

Basic. Shit. Esh.
You can run through all the word loops ya want.
Doesnt change the fact that what I’m saying still applies.

But all you’re saying is that nu uh no it doesnt.
Too bad. It does, given the situation.

… if I wasnt doing this on my phone I’d probably quote like you do.
But as for the part where you say balance and fun are not the same.

OBVIOUSLY IF ITS DESIGNED WELL ITS GOING TO BE BALANCED jesus. Fucking. Christ.
Like this is just fucking obvious I shouldn’t have to say it.

Pvp games are fun when their balanced.
Whoever doesn’t think that ate basically those who dont want a fair match and enjoy having everything in their favor. Like ft players in this game.

Running around like an asshole trolling a killer, isnt really engaging. Sure if you wanna try to use it in a technical fashion, it is an engagement.

But you’re not actually doing anything but running.
And given that you dont actually do anything that really makes sense or is impressive, it’s pretty boring.

I can literally compare it to mowing a lawn.
Sure, I’m engaging the lawn, but uh… its fucking boring.
Only plus side is, you get troll the killer.

You want true engagement and more to the chase.
More for both sides.

No my ideas arent crap.
I’ve things mostly for the killer but that doesnt mean I wouldn’t add anything for the survivors.

The problem with you tho, is you like the set up DbB has where it’s a wild goose chase where all the game really boils down to is trolling the killer.

You can claim that I’m in full favor of the killer and want them to always win. That isnt the case tho.
I just dont think the entire design of DbD should be as stupid and lazy as it is.

The thing is tho esh, I dont have to convince you here.
Because I’m not trying to sell or prove anything.
Everything I’ve stated is facts.

You dont have to agree. That’s fine.
Theres plenty of things that are bad and people that enjoy them will think it’s good and try to defend it.

Such as PHG.

Or a better example. Smite.
I still play it pm occasion.
But I always tell people who never played it before to stay away.

BECAUSE I KNOW ITS BAD.
So kinda sad that I can admit it’s bad, won’t try to defend its bullshit, but yet you cant do that with DbD simply because you like bad and lame mechanics.

Now I cant explain or understand why you or anyone likes something so flawed and thinks it’s good.
To me its fucking insanity.

So, this isnt about me convincing you.

You have to convince me.

And so far, you havent.
Any point you’ve bought up is weak so far, using balance as an excuse.

When I keep telling you, if it’s designed well it will be balanced.

I thought keeping it to one or two topics would make this simpler but your stubborn ass made it way more complicated than it needed to be.

So.

Explain to me, and convince me how the bad designs of DBD are good.
And try to keep it short per point. If it’s good you wont have to sell it. So like 3 sentences or 5.

1. The long cool down and movement speed slow down after landing a blow. If you hit someone and nothing crazy happens or they have no armor, logically you wouldnt get slowed down or have to wait.

Aside from this isnt fun for the killer, it’s a lazy way to simulate balance. It’s not actual balance.

2. Pallets blocking non human or super strength killers.
   Their strength would literally be able to send the pallet flying at the target or simply be pushed be their body and their walking.

3. The fact that you’re literally fixing generators to escape. And how boring of a task that it is, because of how its implemented. Simple can be good, but it’s not in this case.

4. The killers and survivors not having access to all their arsenal from their respective franchises.
   This is a massive disrespect to these characters being turned into a joke in DBD.
   No you cant use balance as an excuse, because its not implemented well.

Like at least supersmash bros keeps them true to somewhat of their origins.
Perfect example is sonic.
Sonic still feels like sonic.

4. WHY THE FUCK IS THE GAME SO SLOW?
   dont misunderstand here.
   Slow can be good if its Implemented well.
   But its not in DBD.

Perfect example of good slow, dark souls.

How slow both factions are is Extremely boring to watch. Since it’s a game it’s supposed to be fun.
Watching a slow killer jog after a victim is not fun nor does it feel good.

5. Why is it so easy to run away on human?
   Again, you cant use balance as an excuse.
   Because if it was balanced, it wouldnt be so easy.
   As for your mind games comment, that’s based off players, not the design.
   Players are doing the mind games.

That being the case, no you claim theres more complexity than there is.

6. Why are abilities so weak on both sides?
   You mock my freeze trap idea, but different things like these are good and always add more to the games.

Different elements, effects, ect.

7. Why the fuck, doesn’t live up to the horror genre and actually add fear to the mix?
   Not as an ingame mechanic, but actually be scary?

Your point about games needing to be repetive so people can get used to things, is an extremely weak arguement.
No, people should always have to adapt in different matches and be able to change things up on the fly.

It’s called creativity Esh.
Or are you afraid you cant adapt unless you’ve dealt with something 50 times?

These are the things I can think of off the top of my head atm.
These are the things that keep DBD from being a really good and interesting game.

Oh and btw, you said you hate looking for things?
God damn you’re lazy.

[Eshtion]

@Fire

Its about making it fun and fair for the solo faction.

@Fire

for the solo faction.

But not the survivors

[Eshtion]

@Fire

Only scrubs complain about turret sections.
So that argument is invalid.
A turret is easy to get past as long as you’re not stupid or impatient.

Jesus christ how are like this

They complain that they’re boring not hard

This is fucking obvious and shows how distant you are to actual players.

Also say I’m not listening all you want, your doing the same shit to me and the only difference is your biased torwards your own view

We’re done here

[Fire]

Guess you cant argue facts.

And like I said, I only mentioned things mainly for the solo faction right now, but like I said survivors need stuff too, I just dont wanna go through that list too.

You’re walking away cause im not accepting your weak arguements. Like it’s not about me being biased.
I’ve literally stated facts and actual issues.

You’re the one trying to convince me of opinions, but not not giving any good reasons at all.

Idk what turrets you’re talking about then.
Cause you say turrets I think of a type of turret in destiny called shriekers and how people complained they were too hard when in reality, they werent, you just needed good timing.