They are absolute trash. I can’t tell you how many loadouts I have with them. I might have one with thick skin and three, at best, with owlf training. Survivability doesn’t mean shit if you aren’t doing damage. There are other ways to survive besides throwing that crap on.
Those two perks, especially together, only serve to waste your perk points and make you have a false sense of security. Playing as a scout duelist without any of that shit makes you get inherently better at the game by force though, I suppose. If you’re a slow fuck with potato aim, it’s probably not a bad idea to have one of them on you. Otherwise, nah. I’m good.

