fire team stick to each other like flys on shit anyways because they knwo they can just slap the predator about
Thoughts on the predator buff.
1 Like
Force them to split up. Use bear traps, your net gun, press the ones that aren’t stuck. Less skilled teams will panic and scatter. Happens all the time. The problem with forcing the team to split up is it’s far too easy to take on 2 fire team members at once. Or say 1 member went to objective A and the other 3 went to objective B, then you just hunt down the line player. Again that’s too easy. You’re wanting the game to do the work for you. And I get it, back during the trial I suggested the same thing, but after spending more time with it, both as Pred and Fire Team, forcing them to split up isn’t the right call.
THAT’S IT! And how should I separate them? what tools do i have None, this is the work of LVL and map designers
This is not true. Once again: I, as a player, have NO tools to make people go in different directions, I can’t limit their view, communication, I can’t give a false info, I can’t buy time. Nothing prevents them from walking in 4 faces back to back and just killing a predator. This is what happens at my 93 level.
“Force them to split up?” How? How can I do that? Net gun? Ok, it’s just 3 god damned seconds and to use it I have to come close to the victim, because all that Fireteam members are not humans actually, they are crazy rabbits in heat! But it’s almost impossible to come close to them, because my Predator has much worse stealth than a rogue in WoW! They see me if only they look in my direction. Even without termal vision. After that they mark me (how? How can you “mark” someone in reality, not in the god damned game?!) and “the hunt begins”. Guess who’s the hunter? It’s a bullshit. Playing a Predator is a total bullshit and the game right now is just a waste of money.
Playing Predator or Fireteam must be the same in terms of winrate AND difficulty. Predator MUST have choice in gameplay. Being an invisible, deadly hunter, “the Death from above”, or being a real Berserker who kills anyone he was able to reach. If the balace won’t be changed - this game will die very very soon.
And if they listen to the panic coming from these forums and over balance, the game will “die” because no one will want to play as a FT member if the Pred wins all the time. The trial gave them a lot of data that showed the game was far more balanced than some of you think. I’m not saying this is true of everyone, but I’m certain the more angry of you are just upset you’re not dominating every match.
1 Like
Do not get me wrong, I like being beaten. I want a fair game and not when the enemy turns into a ball of death that wins almost always.
Well it’ll be interesting to see if they talk about the back end data the way they did during the trial, but and this is my own experience, I’m seeing far more Predator wins today than I have all weekend.
Yes, I’m angry. Because I’ve played Beta, I liked it and spent my money on this game. As most of us did. But now I see that I’ve bought not the same game I’ve paid for. And it makes me angry.
I don’t want “dominating every match”, as I said before, the “50-50” balance is good. I’ve been playing some competitive games for mor than 12 years now, from arenas and bgs in WoW to Overwatch, Call of Duties, For Honor, HotS, WoTs and so on. And I’m not looking for “dominating”, never used any hack or cheat in games (the easiest way to dominate tbh). I just want a competition where all sides are in the same condition, I want “fair play”. Right now this game is not fair. Playing Fireteam is much more easy, relaxing and gives you more “options”. And this is not right.
In a way from reading all the threads it is more like Fireteam Hunting Grounds lol.
I agree
Everything I just read is exactly on point of what I was thinking, I do think they should add a gear like tripwire to put down and hope a boar goes into it while you’re in conflict with the fireteam and lucky enough you snatched a boar, it shouldn’t give you an indication on your hud unless you go back a find one dead by your tripwire or you have to look at the map
At the beginning it is. As you get better it seems to balance itself out. Some tweaks need to be made sure, but as I said earlier, I haven’t seen a single fire team win today and Iv been playing since around noon. People are starting to figure stuff out.
I really like these thoughts - they are well written and laid out well to maintain the “identity” of each Predator and to support the community push for a buff. However, I’ve written a mini Essay on why I disagree to a Predator Buff.
TL:DR - The abundance of healing in both unit decks and for FREE on the map, coupled with free revives that the Predator has SEVERELY limited information on, forces the Predator into a single playstyle - he must kill an enemy every engagement. Anything less and he has wasted time and health - his two most precious resources. As it is now, the Scout will likely NEVER see play due to her severe lack of health. If the abundance (not all) of healing were removed it would allow chip damage and more efficient trades for Predator to strategically plan.
TL:DR TL:DR: Too much healing will force the game into a single playstyle, that is inherently unfavorable for the Predator, and be poor for the longevity of the game.
The current balance of cards provides the Fire Team to potentially bring 42 cards that can provide enormous healing per ally. 32 Medkits (3 Medkit packs per character) and 12 syringes will give you a minimum of 50% health when used. I unfortunately cannot provide exact numbers, but in every game I have played, roughly 60 or so, there has never been an ally without heal. While the backdrop of health for emergencies does not make a card or thought process invincible, it does provide a sense of “Survivability” to allies. This “Survivability” sense is then FURTHER augmented by three things - the free medkits scattered throughout the map only YOUR TEAM can use, the severe lack of threat the AI pose, and the knowledge that your “direct” enemy cannot produce, create, heal, summon, revive or buff any units of their own. This means the Strike Team has no issue ACTIVELY seeking a fight that can punish the Predator - even if it is at a detriment to their own. These players will aggressively send their unit through the bushes to find the Predator they swore was there just five seconds ago.
All of this health, coupled with an essentially “free Revive” that can occur, has created two frustrations that Predator Players are stating in the forums. First, they not only effectively lose every engagement where they do not kill an enemy, but they ALSO lose their Predator’s critical health resource that is their survival condition… further complicated by the fact that the Predator in this game is extremely inefficient until you are level 30-ish. Second, Predator Players are forced to make trades with the Predator against not only base units that can recover stats, summon units… and a revival mechanic summoning 3 enemy champions that died within this game. A typical scenario in a match is as follows:
During a defensive stand by the Strike Nexus Squad against AI opponents, the Predator player uses the Predator to strike an enemy champion repeatedly until downed, THEN repeatedly AGAIN to kill them. Most of your ally’s in Predator Hunting Grounds are very good about responding to enemy champions attacking by hitting them during of as they run. It’s not uncommon, and probably more of a low estimate, to imagine that it is 20-25% of your Predators health can be lost during an encounter. However, while the units killed by your Predator are likely to be revived by the “Strike Nexus Revive” mechanic, your revival mechanic is far riskier.
Bear with my shoddy explanation while I use it to construe facts for this argument
When the Strike Nexus Faction loses between 1, 2 or 3 champions they are given a mission and location IOT revive them at 100% health and Attack WITH all items originally in their possession. No details or indications of this summoning are given to the Predator player apart from prior game knowledge an d roughly 15 seconds of warning from a Swarm announcer. More than likely, the only way to prevent these units from returning is by following the Units assigned to the location and kill them. For Predator Players this task is even more brutal- a Predator that was just engaged in battle, and was struck, must flee on foot for a period of time while emitting special color blood that enemies may use IOT track you, will either die if attacked by enemies or heal to roughly 25%. The Predator is faster than a small majority of units, yes, but the amount of knowledge given to the enemy player during the Predator’s revival is significantly more than during the Nexus Strike Team’s Revival.
I’m not going to say which is better - smarter people than me can do so. What I want to note is that the Strike Nexus is more dependent on the Player Actions vs. the Incapability or Inactivity of the enemy’s actions. Managing your Hero’s to revive the fallen Hero’s provides you choose when you want to revive the units, the method in which you do so, and the units utilized, while the Predators ability is dependent on the inability of an enemy to reach the fleeing unit.
(Quick note - Power Fantasy does NOT mean giving Predatory fans an Uber Predator that auto wins every game and pulls the spine out from their High School bully!! Power Fantasy is a theory crafting of multiple abilities that have been placed onto a single unit to synergize and successfully accomplish the endstate of collecting trophies. There is no victory, satisfaction or pride without the challenge of accomplishment.)
This game has done a phenominal job of making me feel like I am in the Predator universe. Checking the tree line as you move, the dialogue and sounds that can come from Neutral AI units, the Predator gameplay, it all feels just like the movie… except the factions. The Strike Team Faction is obviously our “Arnold Swarzneggar” of the game. They are the “defending faction” in the game and, if Illfonic intends to draw parrallels between these two and promote Predator gameplay, they need to be have their offensive capability neutered while maintaining their capability to complete required objectives. Many of Arnolds team sacrificed themselves, and ultimately Arnold’s teams overall power - in defense of the Predator. However, the game currently has the Nexus Strike Faction as the one that grows stronger and stronger.
I also want to tie this into the Predator in terms as a Unit and as a Player controlling them - the current capability of the Nexus Faction vs. the The Predator is not in line with that Predator imagine or would like to see. While the Nexus Strike units do not have the capability to be stronger than you, the current meta has forced them into a playstyle that just doesn’t FEEL like the Predator. I want to mention specifically I am NOT talking about gameplay, and I will touch on this later so please read more if you want to insult me, but the Predator is fighting units that continue to resist it’s… uhhh… predatory-ness. Think about it - how many times have you pulled your hair out because the Predator missed 2 or 3 melee attacks in a string of 5 just becase the enemy did an insane technique called… walking backward. How long have you lost the advantage of surprise, just because the enemy can click “highight” three times, fast, and been forced the execute a strategy in full view of a Recn enemy? This assasin - who is intended to be one of the best in the Galaxy, is being ‘outwitted’ by more tactics you as a player cannot control.
With the ‘abundant health’ meta now being established, the number one thing in this game that MUST GO IOT allow for the ‘Power Fantasy’ of varied Predator playstyles to come is to remove the medpacks and syringes in a players list of cards. It is critical to maintain a few varied locations on the map - it provides a bit of randomness, more strategic planning if the Strike Teams want to risk venturing off the path, and provides players the psychological sense of ‘reward and good feeling’ for when they find something that can save a unit and potentially the game. Furthermore, this adds even MORE strategic thought and planning when paired with my revive idea discussed earlier - do you fully heal your current unit and survive through chip damage, or do you let him die and bring in the Auto - Shotgun unit that you have after the enemy Berserker has charged you 20 times? Or do you bring in the Sniper you built since the Predator has just been using the Plasma cannon to harass unit he wants to strike?
While this solution is not as radical as other solutions, it provides the start of a swing in balance.
Sorry, I know that was a big read and I doubt a lot of people will read it / provide input… but it has been going through my mind recently as I have played the game. II’m also super tired after nt having slept much this weekend and there might be some grammar issues, so i apologize in advance.
If I had to leave you with one thing - I think it is very punishing to people who love the Predator, and the idea of playing as an elite assasin, to kill 4 (Quite Possibly 6 or 7 enemies), with 1 Unit that is brutally punished without feeling like you can control it. I kinda hate to say this, but as someone who absolutely fell in love with the game during the beta and my first few days, playing as the Predator is starting to lose appeal as I personally hate the idea the feel of victory by killing 3 of the 4 enemy champions, just for the enemy to get a free revive that I am unable to strategically plan around due to lack of information.
2 Likes
Ok, I read it all. That’s all. Repeatedly. That … that was cool, mate. I understood your position: No need to buff a predator, you need to nerf people. And I probably agree with her, I didn’t ask to change the numbers for this reason, I was more interested in a variety of playing styles on different classes of the predator, and in parallel changing the situation on the map by planning (if we are not talking about a berserker, it should be face -rusher)
I want to add, suddenly a community manager or developer will look directly here. Guys, I LIKE your game, I wish her a LONG and confident life, I’m glad that Sony took you under her wing. But you TRUE need to do something with the current meta in the shortest possible time, not everyone is ready to stay with the game until the end. And this meta ruins any immersion.
Completely agree the classes should feel like classes. Not just carry less equipment and different health aspects.
Berserker/combistick shouldn’t be the default class that wins regularly.
Would like to see the hunter or scout get a buff with using ranged weapons and/or extra points for stalking/tricking/trapping prey.
Think the class system for fire team would be nice as well. One of each class per round? Thoughts?
I can’t discuss people because of the principle I don’t play for them. But this is a great way to reduce the effective health of the squad, to allow you to give general first-aid kits only by supposing support or an attack aircraft, and a pair of syringes that do not restore your health instantly, as if it was not a medicine but holy, fucking, water. And gradually over time, so that the detachment really wants to hide and regain strength and not be healed to the fullest right in the fray of the mescaline himself.
Last critique I can think to post. If they are going to give more skill points to less health, then give more slots or higher cost more effective skills to use? Auto target shoulder mount cannon for predator, more damage with bow, instant kill head shot etc.
Just trying to think of ways to give the other classes of predator more of a leg up and reason to play. With berserker having the most health and equipment, make the skills more valuable, effective or useful?
Thoughts?
I’m a Predator main and have been against any kind of buff. I feel the Predator is properly overpowered as is. But if these people want to buff it, fine then, that just makes it easier for me. So by all means, buff the hell out of it. But what do the Fireteam mains think of this? Is the Predator too “squishy”? Or too “overpowered” because I see comments from both angles. Predator players seem to think he’s too squishy, while fireteam players seem to think he’s too overpowered.