Real talk: why are so many gamers Ignorant? (Discussion)

Now I know that this question probably immediately irritates you, but please listen.

I have been playing games since I could remember. Ive played single player, and multiplayer. Im mostly talking about multiplayer here, so when it comes to single player, know I dont mean you. Enjoy what you enjoy.

But I find that the vast majority of games these days are so improperly balanced that im surprised they get dropped, or worse, left, in the state they are in. Examples include: This game, Star wars battlefront 2, every call of duty ever, r6 siege, etc.

I grew up in a beautiful era. My childhood multiplayer was halo, and that was as balanced as console games have ever gotten in my opinion. There were OP things, but you didnt choose them off the rip, you had to lock down the map and wait for the spawns. You had to earn strong weapons. Fight tooth and claw for them.

Then as I hit my teenage years it was counter strike. That game is, Probably the single most all around balanced game I have ever played. It has its flaws, but aside from getting csgo’d by rng bullets at times, Everything else is rock solid. Simple, but solid.

But Now its like everywhere I go there just isnt even a droplet of the concept of balance, or fairness put into these games.

This game is just so poorly balanced I wrote an entire guide about it and Im still sitting here watching it burn. So I wont even get into it right now.

Star wars battlefront 2 (ea) lets heroes and special classes pretty much be infinitely used, and as such normal classes are SEVERELY outclassed 90% of the time. Most games of swbf2 End with every single player playing either a hero, or a special class. Only exception is heavy, because heavy is usefull somewhat. I understand heroes being op. But the special classes? they have twice, or more, health than the defaults. Which means most default classes are shooting bbs at them unless using a very strong but slow fire rate weapon. Shits painful.

Cod is cod. What can I say. Try to play search and destroy on cod, get rpg’d repeatedly, then killstreaked, then lose. Not always the case, but when people play the “Meta” thats the gist.

Siege’s balance equates to “1 shot headshot makes everything fair”. Thats a stupid mentality and honestly the 1 shot kill headshot kills the game. It results in everything you could possibly hate about siege. Spawn peaks, getting lasered through glory holes, Pixel peeks, Etc. And as such, the meta has revolved around that type of gameplay, which defeats the purpose imo.

My point is, tell me honestly where there is a single balanced game these days? they dont exist. Maybe, just maybe, Some indie games might have it. But I cant think of a single AAA game in the past 10 years.

So back to why I asked the original question. I have brought this up in several communities. And the majority of the answers are as follows:

“Its just a game bro”

“Its balanced” (I ask how and they deflect. Because they cant explain it.)

“SALT”

“Shut up”

Not everyone gives these answers of course, and good discussions are had. But The VAST majority of gamers that are vocal take this approach. So many dont want to discuss what is wrong with their favorite titles, and resort to highly immature responses, which makes it worse because no discussions are had when you shut people down like that.

The thing that pisses me off most about this is this. We are all gamers. We are a community. If you dont want to take the time to think about how to better games as a whole could be done, thats fine. I respect that. Most people just play to play. But when people Actually do start the discussion, And you feel that way, and you have nothing but the above to say, Please, close your mouth, and zip it up. Because comments like the ones I quoted do nothing for us as a whole, and on top of that, they make you, and most of our community look like fucking idiots.

This is why games suck these days. Because the dumb ones, seem to be the loud ones.

And shit man maybe in making this, Im the dumb one too. Maybe Im part of the loud stupid majority that fuck everything up. And if you think so, please feel free to reply that. Otherwise I want to know what you guys think… Why is our community like this?

And yes, I know I’m Hypocritical on this. I respect people talking about game balance. But I dont respect people shutting others down because they cant comprehend anything more than the word salt and formulate that into words. those are the kind of people that really need to be shut down. Shit pisses me off, and ironically, leads to me getting salty lol.

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Changed the title to “ignorant” instead of dumb. I feel that fits what im talking about a bit more, and comes off probably just a wee bit less offensive.

Because the internet created a space where you can say anything to anyone without fear of retaliation (most of the time).

Well this thread was fun.

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what the heck is that monstrosity of a link lol

ah an image lol. It never loaded unfortunately

Oh shit the mic drop!

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well primarily it all ended when “early access” became the norm as because of that games simply put never have to release in a balanced or even playable state

since dev studios don’t need to pay any balance designers or game testers cause after all they can just outsource it to the thousands of players that will play their game publishers more and more knowing how expensive video games are to make and how little they price them for (60$ video games should’ve have never continued past 360 era imo)

they resorted to releasing increasigly broken products using Mc’s and expensive pre order special editions to front the cost of production trying to make as much money as possible with as little up front devoloper costs as humanly possible and they still require insane crunch periods just to push these dumpster fires out the door

and then they get their money no one actually votes with their wallet we lost that front long ago
this is where we are now until some sort of legal regulation occurs or when someone loses a lawsuit regarding broken released products (but considering Fallout 76 managed to release) that also probably won’t happen

also the “infinite multiplayer game” which is the normal thing as i believe it’s called Live Service games
are never intended to be balaneced they are ment to keep up play time and keep people spending money that’s what star wars battlefront 2 is after all and even fortnight is that sort of game among many other titles like destiny, league, World of Warcraft, and probably many many more

after all keep in mind the video game industry makes MORE MONEY than the film industry here in the US
why do you think video game movies are starting to happen more and more often? it wasn’t a chance thing it never was perhaps there’s an issue but until then money is what matters and money will continue to be made

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Well said man.

We definitely lost on the wallet voting front. Not just when it comes to the games state when coming out the door, but also on the front of the epic games store. hell…

Each and every one of us here is guilty of that second one for sure.

Its just honestly disgusting. Ive watched games evolve over the years, watched them become so much more beautiful and open. But simultaneously more buggy, exploitable, half assed, broken, and worst of all. Empty.

I understand that development takes time, Especially compared to the old days when graphics werent such a daunting task. But all we are doing is poisioning our own well.

Now because of us, and our inaction against this kind of shit, Our kids, and even their kids, will likely feel the reprecussions, because the likeliness of a gaming revolution so to speak, is nonexistant. Weve all become so docile, that we let the world walk all over us. It just makes me sad man.

And of course that statement can be applied to all the shit humanity has done to the world. But eh.

yeah same it’s the only reason i bought snes and NES classic’s so if i have kids they can grow up on what i feel like good games were i have an expansive PS2 and 360 library and if my kids end up enjoying video games i’ll hook them on those rather than the mess that games are right now i have to keep keen eyes to see just what games are actually good and which ones aren’t

as it’s not all doom and gloom some dev studios still care and release good games it’s just most of the big publishers EA activision ubisoft konami and others that i can’t think of right now that are guilty of well this…

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It fucks me up man, because I feel like Im a relic these days. These live service games do the opposite for me, they just depress me with how broken they are. How little people care. Feels like im being booted out of my own fucking hobby by the herd of the community, as they trample everything I love into the dirt. And then hit me with the “Salty” or “git gud”

The only reason people are “good” these days isnt because of raw skill. Its because they invested the time in learning just how to exploit the fuck out of the games. Learning how to cheese in every possible way to win. Thats gross.

Thats why I dont blame that trans person that was ranting on several posts a few weeks ago. While I dont really care for the attitude she gave off, nor the spotlighting of her being trans as though it will change how people feel about her opinion. I do understand the anger and the frustration, not just with the community, but also games as a whole.

Its been building up on me for years. Its been destroying my happiness for just as long. Single player is pretty much all I have left because fair fights dont exist anymore.

When I die in csgo, The only thoughts that go through my head, were that I was outplayed, or outaimed by someone else.

When I die in almost any other game these days, I cant help but feel that there is some amount of bullshit to the way I was killed.

I would argue that it actually kills the games for casuals, because when the skill gap in multiplayer games, is so dependant on learning exploits, over skill, and quick reactions, it only drives a wider wedge in the skill gap.

that may be true but others die and think
"how can i improve what did he do that i didn’t
and of course others think
“he could’ve been cheating using aimbot.”
and most think
“that’s op it needs nerf”

the problem is knowing which one to go with i try to stick with improving i never assume anyone is cheating unless i am i only lean on op up if i know the games data (frame data or damage numbers etc…)

albeit gaming as awhole is pretty toxic anonymity and internet culture as a whole is that way and will probably always be that way the best thing i can recommend is “thick skin” or stop caring, or avoid conflict whenever possible just don’t be social.

This was too much to read, but as far as call of duty goes, mw3 was pretty balanced. Almost everything was good, and just depended on preference.

After ghost came out, everything went downhill.

As for other games. Cause ppl like stupid shit, and the moment somethings good, everyone bitches that its op.

Abd shit gets nerfed.
Il use smite as the best example. Game is unbal6as hell, yet ppl think its balanced. I got no fkn clue why

Same, I only assume cheats if I see something at the highest level of suspicious, or blatant.

For the majority though I assume I was outskilled. And I do think of what I could have done better.

But in games like siege the only answer I have is:

What could I have done better? I guess not play the game and get tapped through a pixel peek that I have no hope of fighting without an aggressive and pre fire everything style of play. Yenno what I mean?

I only get better in that situation if I learn the exploits myself, and at that point it isnt worth it. I have honor, I refuse to abuse shit like that.

well yeah but you have to keep in mind where the devs are balancing as in what data are they actually looking at

as an example League only looks at balancing data from 3 player MMR’s
Bronze Platinum Challangers
which are 1st tier 4th tier and the highest skill cap for players
if smite for example is only collecting data from Gold tier players than probably gold tier players think the game is pretty balanced it’s just everyone else thinks it’s wrong
and in World of Warcraft they only look at heroic raiding M+ that goes past 12 rating and for pvp 2100 rating 3v3’s
so for those people the game is pretty balanced i’d assume

also never forget the golden rule if everyone is op no one is op that’s what DOTA2 does

You arent wrong.

Im gonna put forth a really controversial idea.

Devs dontt need to listen to the absolute majority. They will stick around no matter how fucked the balance is in their eyes.

Devs should listen to the middle skill level. People with game sense, and decent skill.

Devs shouldnt listen to pros because pros will break everything anyways, and beyond that, they thrive off of exploits.

Point being. The loud and dumb ass majority really needs to be ignored. shit man… When Im discussing shit on here I ignore the dumb ones pretty casually. Not hard to tell when someone does/doesnt know in the slightest what they are talking about.

League is a piss poor example because that game meta whores so hard (I dont blame it, since there is 150+ champs at this point. But still, they are the furthest from a decent example of balance)

edit

Games should be balanced at gold level because that is where common sense and actual game knowledge tend to meet.

Balancing around players with common sense, is good because Id argue that that is where the game will be least exploited. People below gold will be able to reach gold easier

And if you are balancing for gold, the higher ranks will likely be less based on exploitation, and more so on refined skill, reaction time, and game knowledge. As it should be in my opinion.

in a perfect world i’d agree however as league has taught me sometimes you have to make sure the “new player experiance” is healthy nothing can be so broken or op that it would scare new players away from playing your game so in that sense they have too

however aside from that your statement is pretty much correct i’d only look at the highest end players for very very specific feedback like “hey is it ok if this move had this property?” and teh pros would respond with a much more thought out answer due to their perspective giving the devs the knowledge they’d need to make that decision

Yasuo exists.

That pretty much ruins any “new player experience” that league has.

Not to mention that every season there is an extremely broken champion, that is abused in every single match.

Of course yasuo isnt an easy character to play. But in most matches you get smurfed on by a yasuo main that wipes the entire match.

I should know, I sit at low level pretty much infinitely in league, so obviously my idea of balance in that game is much more casual. Still, There are plenty of champions that are nowhere near as rewarding for the skill they require, hence why yasuo has been the meme of league for as long as I can remember.

alright i don’t want to get into a league discussion as i stopped playing league itself in season 5 so anything beyond that point or the modern game i don’t have that much knowledge in however i played it extensively in prior seasons

and at that point i’d say they did make changes for the new player experience dealing with champions like yasuo, leblanc, yorick, darius, rengar, kassadin, and other pub stompy champions or items (anyone remember atmogs? or that fucking banner item?)

and even if there is that one champion that’s what bans are for in ranked but again i don’t want to get into that