Squirrelly Predator Bow & Caster Spammers

#1

So I’ve run into a very frustrating tactic used by some (tryhard IMO) Predator players where they hop & spin, stop a moment to use the bow or a plasma weapon, jump & spin again, rinse & repeat. It’s almost impossible to counter if you’re not playing on PC.

Just like the issues with the FT parry spammers when this game was first released, this feels like an exploit that could use addressing. Perhaps there could be extra aiming time for ranged weapons when jumping multiple times in quick succession. Or make uncharged bow shots have less and less damage after each quick jump.

Bow and plasma weapon spamming while hopping just ruin the experience for the FT or any sense of them having a chance entirely.

Anyone else think this needs some balancing?

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#2

No

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#3

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#4

Nien

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#5

The balance of the game is tipped in the FT’s favor. Stop your whinning and Get Gud.

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#6

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anyway since this thread Is already a meme might as well

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#7

Yiu should see all the bullshit ft has.

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#8

No, use your grenades to stop bunny hoppers and spread out a bit. Pred can only target one person at a time so while they’re bunny hopping and shooting at you the rest of your team should be focused on the pred.

Pretty much everything the FT has ruins the experience for the pred, hell just speed running missions in two minutes ruins the experience for pred.

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#9

About the measured responses I should’ve expected.

I guess I always have to preface that I’m not a Fireteam main and I play both and want the game to be balanced so that both can win with skill. I don’t buy that things are THAT heavily in the FT’s favor right now, when it’s a skilled Predator or one exploiting this tactic they almost always win unless it’s a full PC FT squad. I’ve called for the Predator to be buffed in the past and the FT parry to be nerfed. Sure the Preds could use specializations to match the FT ones. But just because there’s some other balancing that could happen doesn’t mean this exploit is justified.

I don’t have any problem with losing to the Pred, I’ve had some great games where we do, but when they’re just doing the same thing over and over and over, to have a massive advantage, that’s an exploit.

#10

Nah

#11

I’m not the only one who has pointed this out. I found the thread posted a while back by @SomeknowmeasXeno quite convincing.

#12

alright i’m going to be nice and do to you what i did to the other guy who asked this question

bow hopping can never be fixed because of one simple question

what is the predator supposed to do to not get shot by bullets? which are HITSCAN
when there is no cover that fits his bodysize?

click the spoiler if you don’t know the answer

peek around corners which doesn’t usually work after the 2nd shot cause FT just fucking run at you
to make you move and then shoot you as you run away
pred thrives on ambushing but setting up more than one ambush in a game is impossible
hopping is the only answer to reasonably avoid dmg as the predator
cause AT BEST the FT wastes 15 bullets everytime they shoot at you
oh yeah it fucking sucks
but unless they give predator some kind of bullet shield or hp regen
it’s what we have to deal with as a mechanic

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#13

Appreciate you being nice, I’m mostly a lurker here.

I’m lvl 150 and have platinumed the game but I suspect I play a lot less than some here. Honestly I’ve mostly been waiting for new content. I don’t pretend to know all the ins and outs of the best builds and all the metas, etc.

Problem is unless you’re queuing up with a full FT of competent players, your bound to get some 0-200 damage ones.

It’s simply frustrating when I hop into a match and we all get rushed by a Pred who bow hops / plasma spams, and that’s all they resort to. Not even going for a claim but just spamming downed players until they’re dead.

Honestly where is the fun in that on either side? There are plenty of tactics in Dead by Daylight that might be part of the game, but are quite frowned upon. Of course, like with this, you get the argument of if it’s a genuine exploit that needs to be adjusted, or if the one complaining needs to just ‘get gud.’

I saw a few making this argument in the @SomeknowmeasXeno thread (A FT Gift from a Pred Main (DPS Chaser Build)), that things are so high in the FT favor right now, what else are they supposed to resort to? I don’t know where some Pred mains are getting all these elite FT squad encounters from, I win probably a decent majority of my Predator matches. I think there should be Predator specializations to counter the FT ones. But when I see so often Preds exclaiming that things are so broken in favor of FT. I mean, what percentage of matches are you actually losing?

I can only go by my personal experience, with again, is limited, but for me, things seem pretty balanced. I’m calling for a tweak because I’m seeing a tactic that feels cheap and unfair being used too often. And again, when the game came out the Parry spam was ridiculous, and I called for that to be nerfed too.

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#14

tbf the % of matches i lose in QM is less than 10% and those games are almost exclusively as the “bad classes” (zerk scout viking samurai) with a few other notable exceptions however when you enter the pre made field this PLUMMETS to an absurd degree i’m talking even if i increase predator hp by upwards to 200% against some players winning against them is still too frustrating sure we can just make adjustments now but there is a problem with this

the trickle down

so overtime a META forms in a game as players communicate with each other or just learn from looking what other players are doing in FT case they literally get all the info they need on good classes in lobby without any VO comms after that it’s JUST game knowledge (like mission memorization and spawn locations) and being an accurate shot

i know and every other predator knows eventually as the game is now and as it was before when FT learn how to play the game you just won’t win as the predator or at the very least it won’t be fun to win because of how frustrating the game will be to play i have countless games in my example of fighting truely random players who just happen to individually know how to play the game very well and do not use voice comms and it’s a fucking slog to play against them and isn’t fun to play

albeit i have over 300hours in the game probably i’ve been 150 since the first day the level cap increased in the first 3 days of the games release i played for 36 hours straight

and while i’m mediocre at FPS i’m very good at meta predictions and number crunching i even have professional video game experiance (in terms of competition not making the only game making i do is Dungeons and Dragons homebrew creation)

the game is very much FT favored unless you assume it’s normal for a FPS player to miss over 70% of their shots
as when i look at actual number values of this game it is insane to me that the bullet damage this game has is assuming the FT miss 50% of their shots in every encounter with the predator

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#15

Upon searching the average FPS player accuracy is 28-32%, so you’re not too far off with the FT missing 70% of those, and that’s in games without a super fast Predator leaping through trees.

#16

most people are making the FT favored balance argument exclusively using the knowledge players are starting to accrue regarding actual by god numbers here this thread is a good compilation of all of them

and pulling them away from do the actual players matter as imo i don’t want to use the worst possible players who still need to learn how to play the game when i would balance a game but maybe I’m a crazy person i know that Riot games for example has made balance changes like this in the past so there are people out there who do think you have to think of all the wood league players

BUTT
as currently the game DOES NOT have skill based matchmaking so the game shouldn’t be balance around skill too much when atm it seems FT have gotten al ltheir favorable balance changes exclusivly to pad the ability of the WORST players ft could possibly have which of course was just free advantages for the good players to use

which makes the gap of balance between good players in terms of winrates absurd as predators are having to try so hard to beat good FT members that it isn’t fun and it doesn’t FEEL fair

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#17

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#18

Thanks for the insight, I’ll have to go through that compilation.

And the end of the day though I have to wonder if Illfonic mostly makes balance tweaks on what they can see with back-end stats, or if they implement suggestions here. Would really like to see stat tracking added to the game.

Yeah I don’t think things should lean into skill-gap compression too heavily either. But you also can’t have it so only the elite players have a chance, it’s a balance. And they’re mostly going to be balancing based on quick matches rather than ‘pre-made’ (are you meaning private matches?).

With the spam-hopping, this is a specific nitpick I have here that I’m expressing, I’m not saying the Predator shouldn’t have new features or balance buffs in other areas. I’ve also had plenty of frustrating experiences as the Predator, and a lot of it came down to PC snipers (who I don’t really run into too much anymore) and parry spamming.

#19

yes and no pre-mades in QM (group of 4 who que’d up as a party)
are just as frustrating as fighting a group of players through private matches it’s just with Private matches we can also change the rules to some extent

it’s def mostly with back end stats judging by the few times i’ve seen Hamlet (one of the CM’s for the forum) talk about balance related changes he refers to going over match data so forum stuff is just stuff that they look at they ask the team then it’s up to the team if yes or no where match data is more concrete cause it’s what’s actually happening in game however

match data can also be bad cause you need FUCK TON of data to make accurate changes or be able to think outside the box in terms of how systems and player behaviour interact with each other Killer instinct for example needed 4 months of data to make a balance change that actually worked and that was a relatively small indie game like this one

balancing has to be treated as a cure to a sickness not a symptom there is a story to the reason i refer to balancing this way but it’s very long winded

sure one month of data is probably fine for League of legends
but this game? absolutely not needs like 4 months at least

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#20

You’re complaining about repetition and spam.
Yet ft does nothing but spam bullets.
Spot, grenades.

So why Is it a problem when pred does it, but not ft?
Not one person has ever given a good answer to that question.

Il give you this.
Yes bunny hop bow users are annoying.
Alot of ppl hate them.

But to call it an exploit?
How the hell is anyone supposed to take you seriously when you’re calling dodging an exploit?

I’ve hit preds in leap, I’ve also been hit while I’m leaping.

Theres no other way to tell you but directly.
You’re wrong.

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